Volvo 245 diesel cheapish - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

moon161 · #1 11-18-2015, 02:02 PM

Volvo 245 Diesel:

tjts1 · #2 11-18-2015, 02:15 PM

The VW engine in those is garbage. Crack pipe.

fahrvergnugen · #3 11-18-2015, 03:05 PM

If it has seen maintenance, they are bullet proof. No different than the diesels in the 80s VWs, with some obvious concessions.

fahrvergnugen · #4 11-18-2015, 03:07 PM

Bad rings though? If you can find a good VW mechanic that likes them, maybe...

mannys9130 · #5 11-18-2015, 04:04 PM

I've never liked VW's garbage and after working on them (new and old) I've come to downright despise anything they touch. I'll never own one.

dude99 · #6 11-18-2015, 04:44 PM

It was run on veggie, the rings are probably gummed up from that

Volvo Diesel · #7 11-18-2015, 05:19 PM

I owned a 1984 Volvo 240/264 with that motor for 13+ years. The VW 2.4L I-6 diesel engine gets trash talked a lot, frequently by people who have very little experience with them. Granted, they have an aluminum head so they were more prone to head/head gasket issues than the OM617 Mercedes motors which were being produced at the same time. What killed most of these is lack of proper maintenance by owners (same could be said for a lot of Benz diesels....). Also, the maintenance schedule was ridiculous--my 1984 owners manual suggested, for "normal" driving conditions, oil changes every 7,500 miles with the filter being changed every other oil change.

Are these engines as well-designed/over-engineered as the OM617? No. It runs and drives like the engine in a delivery truck (which was exactly what VW used it for in Europe). Is it "garbage?" No. If maintained, longevity can match the Benz diesels from the era.

I agree that veggie oil may have gummed up the rings on this one. For $1,750, you have to wonder what a long Marvel Mystery Oil soak and several short duration oil changes with some spirited driving (not to mention using actual diesel fuel...) might do to clear up the rings issue.

The real problem in owning one is finding someone to work on them if you don't do your own work. Some of the old school VW mechanics will wrench on them but it's been 10+ years since most European indy shops have even though about one of these....

mannys9130 · #8 11-18-2015, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volvo Diesel

I owned a 1984 Volvo 240/264 with that motor for 13+ years. The VW 2.4L I-6 diesel engine gets trash talked a lot, frequently by people who have very little experience with them. Granted, they have an aluminum head so they were more prone to head/head gasket issues than the OM617 Mercedes motors which were being produced at the same time. What killed most of these is lack of proper maintenance by owners (same could be said for a lot of Benz diesels....). Also, the maintenance schedule was ridiculous--my 1984 owners manual suggested, for "normal" driving conditions, oil changes every 7,500 miles with the filter being changed every other oil change.

Are these engines as well-designed/over-engineered as the OM617? No. It runs and drives like the engine in a delivery truck (which was exactly what VW used it for in Europe). Is it "garbage?" No. If maintained, longevity can match the Benz diesels from the era.

I agree that veggie oil may have gummed up the rings on this one. For $1,750, you have to wonder what a long Marvel Mystery Oil soak and several short duration oil changes with some spirited driving (not to mention using actual diesel fuel...) might do to clear up the rings issue.

The real problem in owning one is finding someone to work on them if you don't do your own work. Some of the old school VW mechanics will wrench on them but it's been 10+ years since most European indy shops have even though about one of these....

The OM60x engines all have Aluminum heads. The only ones with issues are the early #14 603s and the early 602s with faulty headgaskets that leak oil into the timing chain cavity.

VW has an awful habit of engineering vehicles that inevitably fall apart, more so now and the last 10 years than ever. Every single VW engine I have worked on has been miserably designed and has all sorts of noises and issues. They usually end their lives because they've fallen apart so badly, the owner decides they aren't worth basic maintenance and it's only another year before the engine seizes and the car ends up in a crusher.

Volvo Diesel · #9 11-18-2015, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

The OM60x engines all have Aluminum heads. The only ones with issues are the early #14 603s and the early 602s with faulty headgaskets that leak oil into the timing chain cavity.

VW has an awful habit of engineering vehicles that inevitably fall apart, more so now and the last 10 years than ever. Every single VW engine I have worked on has been miserably designed and has all sorts of noises and issues. They usually end their lives because they've fallen apart so badly, the owner decides they aren't worth basic maintenance and it's only another year before the engine seizes and the car ends up in a crusher.

Okay...but at the end of the day, a motor with an aluminum head on an iron block is more likely to suffer damage in the case of it being overheated. Regardless of whether that motor is in an 87 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel or an 87 300D.

I wholeheartedly agree, however, that the build quality of, and engineering behind, my 85 300D is superior to the build quality of my old 84 Volvo diesel. I'd even be willing to go farther and say MB's build quality and engineering is superior to Volkswagon's, period...with the caveat that when you look at what they cost new, you'd sort of suspect that to be the case, right?

I'm not at all trying to be argumentative and I'm willing to bet you have more mechanical knowledge than I. I just know from experience that I drove my 84 Volvo with the Diesel engine for almost 200,000 miles over 13 years, often in less than ideal conditions, and had very few issues over that time. I donated it to my local National Public Radio affiliate a few years ago when I couldn't source another power steering pump bracket (a noted weak point) and I could no longer justify having 3 cars in addition to my wife's. It was a good car.

Diesel911 · #10 11-18-2015, 09:28 PM

I have owned my 1982 Volvo 240GL with the D24 Diesel since 1992 (no turbo).

I cannot remember the milages on it when I bought it but I posted that in some threads back in 2007-2008.

When I got mine I had some slight gray smoke at the tail pipe all of the time. That resulted in me rebuiliding the Block the bores of which where worn out (I believe I took a compresson test on it and it was near the bottom of the usable end). The Pistons and rings are the same as a VW Rabbit and the Pistons I bought were from Brazil.
Pistons were a lot cheaper then Mercedes Pistons.

It has a Timing Belt and the same for the Fuel Injection Pump.
The Drive Shaft Seal on the Fuel Injection Pump will eventually leak and if you need to replace the Pump Drive Shaft Bushings you will find they need to be reamed or bored out. This type of Fuel Injection Pump is less problematic then the Standyne Pumps on GM Diesels.
One thing it suffers along with theStandyne Pumps is that the Cam Ring wears the Sides of the Fuel Injection Pump Housing.

Nothing exotic or prblematic with the Cooling System except that the Thermostat is in the center bottom of the Block.
The Vacuum Pump is a Pierburg but is not going to gernade into your Engine.
It had rack and pinion steering and is easier to steer then the Mercedes (Car seems ligher)

Everthing besides the Engine is closer or similar to a US or other imported Car.

Mine has a Manual Transmission with an overdrive which I like. However, the Throwout Bearings seem to wear out fast in like 5-7 Years and it is easy to slip the Clutch. I think the Clutch diameter is too small for it and of course the Flwheel Diameter is small compared to a Mercedes.

It has a norma U-joint and differential setup with a driveshaft that is similar to mercedes.

The rubber part at the top of the front struts seems to crack within 7 or so years. However I doubt if I bought good quality ones wich are about $50 each (mine need to be changes and I had changed them once before)

I have never replaced the Motor or Transmission Mounts and the Power windows have never caused issues.

It had a Motorola Alternator and using the Glow Plugs after the Engine is running seems to use up one of the Alternator Brushes on the Voltage Regulator unit and replacing it was $45 in 1992 Dollars. I Jury rigged a DELCO 10-SI Alternator on the next time the Brushes failed and that fixed the issue.

You are suppoesd to adjust the Valves and less milage then on the Volvo and to do that you need to exchange different thicknesses of Shims/Plates. There is a speckal Tool to compress Valve Lifter+Springs and another to get the Plates. Getting the Plates out is difficult with out the Tool wich I in fact do not have.
When I was pressed to do the Valve Adjustment I pulled the Camshaft off whick means you need to retime the Camshaft and Fuel Injection Pump.
There is a tool for the Camshaft timeng (I made that) and there is a Dial Indicator setup for the Fuel Injection Pump. However, the Pump Flange is marked similar to a Standyne. I did not have to mess with the Dial Indicator to time till I took the Fuel Injection Pump Apart.

I also do not adjust or check the Valve Clearances as per the Manual and it has always run OK. It does not have Valve Rotators on it so it is likely the valve wear is different.

When I overhauled the Block I was shocked to find the Aluminum Head had cracks between the Valve Seats. But, the manual said if the Cracks had not opened up within a certain spec it was usable. Did not like that but it has proven to be no problem.
I think I read the Mercedes Aluminum Heads also crack in a similar manner and can be reused if it within what the Manual tells you.

The Plastic that the Interior is made of deteriorates as did some of the Electric Door Lock wiring. Except for that the Door Locks have been no issue.

Compared to owning the Mercedes W123 the Volvo had been less work and less expense to fix. I think that is due to the more conventional design (no rear CV Axles)
The biggest problem with the Volvo is My Wife cannot drive a manual Transmission.

Also for several years now the Rear End has some slight noise that I have never taken care of. I simply drive it on short trips around town.

Another problem is that you cannot go down to the Junk Yard and find parts for the Diesel Engine or Fuel Injection System. The only time I saw one was when I was out of work and could only afford to buy the Fuel Injection Hard Lines when I really needed to buy the Fuel Injection Pump.

As I said a lot of the Engine Parts are the same as a VW Rabbit.

When I was looking for another Diesel Car I would have been happy to buy another Volvo but with an Automatic Transmission.

But, I have to admit the Mercedes opened up a whole new world for me if only because I ended up on this forum.

Diesel911 · #11 11-18-2015, 09:40 PM

Oops I miss some major issue. On the Volvo D-24 Diesel because of the Timing Belt I believe that a lot of people ruin their Engines because when the Belt Breaks Valve hit Pistons. That happed to me when I accidently knocked a Screw Driver into the Belt. At idle speed the damage was fixable.

The issue that sucks with the timing belt is that there is an extensive sheet metal gaurd system and in order to change the Belt you need to remove the front Cranshaft Damper.

I removed the Guards (which is why the Screwdriver got into the belt when I dropped it) when I changed the Belt but found that there is also Aluminum Lip that will still prevent you from changing the belt even with the Guards removed. On my 3rd belt Change I sawed off that Lip so now the belt can be changed without removeing the Crank Damper.

Besides making it easier to remove the Belt one of the reasons I removed the Belt Guards was so it is easy to inspect the Belt and Belt tension. I think that Guard is preventing a lot of people from detecting that the Timing Belt needs to be replaced.

JB3 · #12 11-19-2015, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

The OM60x engines all have Aluminum heads. The only ones with issues are the early #14 603s and the early 602s with faulty headgaskets that leak oil into the timing chain cavity.

VW has an awful habit of engineering vehicles that inevitably fall apart, more so now and the last 10 years than ever. Every single VW engine I have worked on has been miserably designed and has all sorts of noises and issues. They usually end their lives because they've fallen apart so badly, the owner decides they aren't worth basic maintenance and it's only another year before the engine seizes and the car ends up in a crusher.

A lot more spleen than reality here. I worked on them professionally too, and have owned more than a dozen over the years. Nothing so far has caused me to have such an opinion as the above. In fact after working on a rabbit the first time and being astounded on how easy it was to work on, i ran right out and found my own to putter around in.

In paticular the older ones are almost comically easy to fix. You can time a 1.6 diesel with a popsicle stick holding the cam for petes sake. A mk2 wont ride like and feels tinny and cheap compared to a 123, but it also didnt cost 35k in 1985 either did it? It was a cheap bargain car at the time, and there are still tons on the road. Pretty good track record for an economy car.

Currently own a mk4 and a NMS passat, both great cars that hold up well. VWs are about maintenance, but most cars are.

The only car ive experienced that you can leave for 20 years in a ravine and have the engine start with basic tinkering is a 123 diesel

mannys9130 · #13 11-19-2015, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

A lot more spleen than reality here. I worked on them professionally too, and have owned more than a dozen over the years. Nothing so far has caused me to have such an opinion as the above. In fact after working on a rabbit the first time and being astounded on how easy it was to work on, i ran right out and found my own to putter around in.

In paticular the older ones are almost comically easy to fix. You can time a 1.6 diesel with a popsicle stick holding the cam for petes sake. A mk2 wont ride like and feels tinny and cheap compared to a 123, but it also didnt cost 35k in 1985 either did it? It was a cheap bargain car at the time, and there are still tons on the road. Pretty good track record for an economy car.

Currently own a mk4 and a NMS passat, both great cars that hold up well. VWs are about maintenance, but most cars are.

The only car ive experienced that you can leave for 20 years in a ravine and have the engine start with basic tinkering is a 123 diesel

Did we work on the same VWs, because I never put a wrench to a VAG car I liked. Miserable cars. Durability was awful. The engines would have broken plastic parts all over, leaks, noises, sludge, etc. The interior would fall apart and become a mess. The electronics would fail left and right, to the point where I worked on more VWs that I couldn't read the instrument cluster LCD than ones I could.

VW produced several engines that were so poorly designed, if they were filled with an oil that didn't meet an exact spec they rounded off their cam lobes and dished out their lifters. Others sludged up beyond repair.

A family member has an 08 Passat Wolfsburg Edition that has continuous coolant leak problems. Between fixing the leaking flange constantly and topping off the G12, it's a nightmare.

VW became famous because of the bug, and people have just been brand loyal ever since. I've driven an old bug about 10 feet and I got right back out and made up my mind. It was sloppy and crude, and I have no idea how people like them.

JB3 · #14 11-19-2015, 10:09 AM

Could be gas cars. My experience is more the diesels working at diesel shops, though i did get to play with a gas corrado a few times

The diesels are great, enjoy their design.

Your response above sounds like me talking about workhorse vans, vehicles i consider made by drugged chimpanzees in a paper mache factory with a shopping cart full of random GM parts

sloride · #15 11-19-2015, 10:18 AM

Run on wvo, excessive blue smoke, dash cracks, gagues not wired or disconnected, been sitting may need battery. Maybe the second most expensive thing, a cheap Volvo diesel.