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  #31  
Old 11-19-2015, 02:58 PM
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Honestly $1500 is not all that much in the scheme of things. Are the replacement pumps known to fail as well, or did they improve something worth them. If it were me I might consider saving for a couple months and just doing it. Tires and breaks are two areas that it just doesn't pay to save money on....
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  #32  
Old 11-19-2015, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dude99 View Post
Honestly $1500 is not all that much in the scheme of things. Are the replacement pumps known to fail as well, or did they improve something worth them. If it were me I might consider saving for a couple months and just doing it. Tires and breaks are two areas that it just doesn't pay to save money on....
Part of my thinking for not doing it preemptively is (a) my car was the very last year that the system was used in the E class (manufactured in May 2006), so whatever improvements in the system that were made along the way are incorporated into my car; and (b) for the number of miles my car has (149k), the braking system has been used relatively little....virtually all highway miles.
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  #33  
Old 11-19-2015, 05:27 PM
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A family friend was driving up to Vermont in a 2006 E Class Wagon, when the SBC failed. No one was hurt, and no cars collided, but she was traumatized as the car 'simply wouldn't stop' in her words.

When driving 85 MPH like your typical, (absent minded, texting) driver at one car length - an SBC failure will likely result in a collision. Airbags may save you, or they may not.

I must admit, I have developed extreme anxiety pertaining to SBC failure, and always maintain football field length following on the highway. But in the city, this is not possible, and I fear the red screen, and the limp pedal.

I have read that it is possible to use SDS/Xentry to extend the predetermined lifespan of SBC - but this is done at your own risk.

I find the system only promotes unsafe driving. I have become myself overly reliant on the stoping capability of the vehicle, and thus inadvertently driving to close to other cars.

When I operate another vehicle with ABS or traditional braking systems, my reflex time is use to the SBC, and I have bumper tapped before.

It also makes changing the brake pads (without deactivation) a dangerous operation.

Can you tell I am not a fan of SBC?
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  #34  
Old 11-19-2015, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by shertex View Post
I guess the real doomsday scenario is having the SBC go out at the very time you need to stop suddenly. Any other scenario you'd be able to allow for gradual braking and not get in a wreck. We'll see what happens when the time comes. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the best braking I've ever experienced.
I really like the hill stop feature that you can detect when starting on a hill into drive.

Have you considered retrofitting yours with the 08/09 braking system? Sans Sensonic?
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  #35  
Old 11-19-2015, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by shertex View Post
I'd be very surprised if any CDI owners have preemptively replaced the pump....but perhaps some have.
Have you gone to an MB dealer to see if they'll gratis you a new system?

After your experience(s) trying to get an internal MB report on a used MB you either owned or were considering buying - I think I know what their answer will be.
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  #36  
Old 11-19-2015, 09:32 PM
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I am not sure I read it right. It may be when the dealers brake flush these systems they have to change some computer program. All I got clear from the post was something along that line.

If you have one of these systems you really should get whatever information is required to know. Maybe from a dealer mechanic. I did not even like the implication of the post on the other site. Almost sounded like designed to fail.

Also the nitty gritty. The illusion about having some brakes with a major issue in most braking systems present. For most cases it is practically very little more than an illusion.

Last edited by barry12345; 11-19-2015 at 10:57 PM.
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  #37  
Old 11-20-2015, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
In desperation we were told the automatic put into reverse is going to be damaging perhaps but a better option than nothing sometimes.
Yeah, don't do that. Modern automatics won't allow you to shift into reverse, and you'll destroy an older unit that actually will. If you're in a situation so dire that you're considering grenading the tranny or dragging the side rail, throw the shifter into a 3 or 2 and engine brake as you apply the E brake and press on the brake pedal like mad.

Brake failure sucks. After rear ending a car before and being hit several times myself, I drive and brake like an old man. It annoys others but I just do not want to feel that helpless feeling again like I did when I realized I couldn't stop before rear ending that person.

Shertex, I've been thinking. The braking power is probably a little bit more powerful than the hand brake on a 201 or 124. In the owner's manual, it says to occasionally pull the hand brake with the button pressed at 30 mph to remove any rust on the surface of the parking brake shoes. If you do that like I do every couple months, you'll see how weak it is. It's take me 1/4 mile to slow from 40-0, although I'd be double clutching and doing massive engine braking in a very bad situation. You've owned a 124, but I'm not sure if you ever did as the manual instructed.
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  #38  
Old 11-20-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by wagonfreak View Post
A family friend was driving up to Vermont in a 2006 E Class Wagon, when the SBC failed. No one was hurt, and no cars collided, but she was traumatized as the car 'simply wouldn't stop' in her words.

The Sher posed a valid question and I read some of the panicked replies with amusement, and confirmation how out of touch the general motoring public is with the realities of operating a motor vehicle.

Too many are used to power steering / brakes and how in recent times cars rarely stall and lose power assist.

In days when power / brakes steering were less common and engines stalled with some frequency, drivers were used to dealing with the loss of power assist. Now too many are used to driving with finger tips and toes.

The reliance on power assist and resulting driver panic during it's loss rates up there with the guy from CA that took his family on a trip, blindly used Google directions, took a closed snowed in logging road and got stuck. Lacking any sort of winter coats or preparations for such a trip a series of immensely poor decisions lead to his death.
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  #39  
Old 11-20-2015, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
.....Too many are used to power steering / brakes and how in recent times cars rarely stall and lose power assist....
In days when power / brakes steering were less common and engines stalled with some frequency, .....
To balance this picture some..... at that point in time most brakes were regular drum brakes...which have a ' self energizing ' feature due to the design... where Disc brakes are a one to one relationship between pressure on the pedal and the stopping power.
So power assist is very important to panic stops in particular... and people with no practice at ' no power assist' may find themselves surprised in a bad way...
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  #40  
Old 11-20-2015, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
To balance this picture some..... at that point in time most brakes were regular drum brakes...which have a ' self energizing ' feature due to the design... where Disc brakes are a one to one relationship between pressure on the pedal and the stopping power.
So power assist is very important to panic stops in particular... and people with no practice at ' no power assist' may find themselves surprised in a bad way...
The also unknown consideration is how we will personally act in a given pressure situation. We cannot really predict it unless experiencing the same previously. Even then nothing is saying we will derive any benefit at all from knowing we did not freeze up. The mind does not do well if it is cognizant something really serious is playing out that may kill us more likely than not.

My biggest fear would be even before the mind is totally aware that the brakes are not there I would be into another car. After thinking about this for a day I really think I would change that part out if it were my car or convert the system.

As cheap as possible needless to say. Consistant with the end result being as good as possible. The mind is also a strange thing in the way it works with different individuals. In my mind I do not know if I would retain the same enjoyment of driving a car with a know possible potential issue as serious as this one.

I certainly would not let my wife drive it. She just deserves better and has always trusted my judgment. I have never claimed women where not strange creatures.

Also I have never wanted to ever hurt anyone else. It could happen but should not because of my neglect.

I am not a real old fuddy duddy type and never have been really. At the same time it was more than 50 years ago when I had the experience I had with that 51 chev and it was traumatic enough to never forget. Had I not experienced it perhaps I would be a little more liberal. Thats if I can use that term on this site.

It seems another poster on this thread also shares a variation of the lasting after effects to an even much greater extent than I do. Allowing even the remote possibility of having this feeling is not worth the money.
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  #41  
Old 11-20-2015, 05:51 PM
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Disc brakes started to become popular on US cars in the early 70's, carburetors hung out until mid late 80's so a carb and disc combo was possible.

I think the whole SBC failure thing is a bit overblown. Any part on a regular braking system can fail at any time causing loss if assist.

A fan belt can come off and power steering goes away.( Some cars have direct electric assist so that problem is minimized. )

A vacuum pump ( on a diesel ) can fail and power brake assist will go away, yet I don't see a wholesale panic by these car owners.
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2015, 06:35 PM
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I think the whole SBC failure thing is a bit overblown.
That is the way I see it.
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  #43  
Old 11-20-2015, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Disc brakes started to become popular on US cars in the early 70's, carburetors hung out until mid late 80's so a carb and disc combo was possible.

I think the whole SBC failure thing is a bit overblown. Any part on a regular braking system can fail at any time causing loss if assist.

A fan belt can come off and power steering goes away.( Some cars have direct electric assist so that problem is minimized. )

A vacuum pump ( on a diesel ) can fail and power brake assist will go away, yet I don't see a wholesale panic by these car owners.
So does an SBC failure cause about the same braking effect as loss of vacuum on our older diesels? Or is it far worse? When the vacuum-pump failed on my Euro 300TD, it was disconcerting enough I didn't want to drive the car any more than was absolutely nessessary, but not so bad I needed BOTH feet to stop. I've repaired or replaced the vacuum pumps on both my W123s. The parts were pricey, but far less than $1500! Or even $750.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #44  
Old 11-21-2015, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Disc brakes started to become popular on US cars in the early 70's, carburetors hung out until mid late 80's so a carb and disc combo was possible.

I think the whole SBC failure thing is a bit overblown. Any part on a regular braking system can fail at any time causing loss if assist.

A fan belt can come off and power steering goes away.( Some cars have direct electric assist so that problem is minimized. )

A vacuum pump ( on a diesel ) can fail and power brake assist will go away, yet I don't see a wholesale panic by these car owners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by engatwork View Post
That is the way I see it.
Just so - yup.

Bring some wisdom to the discussion. The; "you have no brakes" quote is from a poster that's never owned one. Especially some of those that do not own one. This is not the disaster some are making it our to be.
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Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 11-22-2015 at 07:57 PM.
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  #45  
Old 11-22-2015, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by shertex View Post
Wasn't implying that I'd continue to drive if it went out...simply wondering about the braking power to get me off the road to a safe spot.
Wow I'm only on page two and some of the responses are both comical and frightening. Normally you'd see such over at BW not here. Thumbs down. SBC failure is well documented and exceedingly dangerous. When the w211 SBC system works as designed it's a superior system- however when it fails it gives zero warning in advance; touch the brake pedal and nothing just a red message on the center screen and the results are about the same as cutting off cleanly the hard brake line on a traditional system; you have almost no brakes whatsoever.
Shertex has a valid safety question which appears to most who post to be a joke.

Last edited by MTUpower; 11-22-2015 at 06:15 AM.
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