W123 brake pads - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dac · #1 11-20-2015, 04:52 PM

So I apologize in advance, as I'm beating a dead horse by starting another brake pad thread. But it seems most threads end up being about brake dust and that's not my top priority.

I'm going to replace pads and rotors on all 4 wheels, and am looking at my options. I don't lose too much sleep over brake dust, but want strong, smooth, and quiet stopping from pads that will last a while. If I can get this and clean wheels, all the better.

Which pads offer the best performance and last a while? I don't mind spending extra.

Porterfield R4-S keep coming up. I know they're clean, but how does their stopping and durability compare to OEM?

As far as rotors, should I just stick with OEM for the best performance?

Thanks for the help,
Daniel

barry12345 · #2 11-20-2015, 05:25 PM

For the average driver the existing brake system is quite adequate if in good condition. At least in my opinion.

Ceramic pads are the general standard today. Organic pads are almost no longer on the scene but wear rotors less. Personally I have never been estatic about metallic pads but everyone has a choice and opinion. Not a bad time to change out the brake hoses either. They were never designed with the extended lifespan we are exposing them to.

thatguy · #3 11-20-2015, 05:26 PM

I just use the usual suspects and have nothing but good luck, Textar, Pagid, ATE.

PARSHOOT1 · #4 11-20-2015, 09:05 PM

I've been using Akebono pads and get a lot less, if any, dust.

OEM rotors but have also used Brembo and Zimmerman.

t walgamuth · #5 11-20-2015, 09:26 PM

I have used Hawk ceramics and liked them. almost no dust and they last a long time. They grab more than organics so you have to change the front and rear pads or you will get premature lockup on the ceramic end of the car.

dieseldiehard · #6 11-20-2015, 09:29 PM

Brembo makes good rotors. For pads, I recommend Textar which are OE quality. On my '79 300TD I am using metalmasters just because I don't drive that much and when I do have to stop I want to feel like I am stopping.
The worst pads I had were Akebono ceramics, I actually think the accident I was in with my '85 300TD that occurred as I was following too close

anyhow I think better pads would have prevented my car from being totalled. I stood on the brake pedal but never heard a screech, it was a real disappointment because I suspected the pads were hard, I knew they stopped better after they warmed up. I was using SS reinforced brake hoses too, you might want to consider those instead of the OE rubber lines but whatever a new set of brake hoses is worth adding to the job.
Be certain to bleed the entire system while you are at it. ATE blue fluid allows you to see when its reached the calipers (proper procedure is RR first, followed by LR, RF then LF on the 123.
As always with Brake pads, YMMV.

I like the ability to lock up all four wheels and screech to a stop when I jam on the brakes. Metalmasters will do that and are often recommended for vehicles that are used to tow a trailer or carry a heavy load, which is what my wagon sometimes is used for.
DDH

mannys9130 · #7 11-20-2015, 10:16 PM

ATE Blue is illegal in the US and no longer available.

Locking up the tires and screeching to a stop is the worst thing you can do. Once the tires lock up, your brakes do NOTHING. Threshold braking is what you should be doing. To threshold brake, you apply the brakes until the tires lock, then let up so you regain traction and repeat. The tires MUST be in contact with the road to stop. Dragging the 4 rubber tires produces much less friction than all 4 disc brakes rejecting the heat that's the result of your car's kinetic energy.

thatguy · #8 11-20-2015, 10:24 PM

That's the fluid I have been using for years in my MB, I did use ATE Super Blue in my truck and found it to be great, but this is the first I'm hearing it's "banned" now. Oh well, Type 200 it is in my non-MB!

dieseldiehard · #9 11-20-2015, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

ATE Blue is illegal in the US and no longer available.

Locking up the tires and screeching to a stop is the worst thing you can do. Once the tires lock up, your brakes do NOTHING. Threshold braking is what you should be doing. To threshold brake, you apply the brakes until the tires lock, then let up so you regain traction and repeat. The tires MUST be in contact with the road to stop. Dragging the 4 rubber tires produces much less friction than all 4 disc brakes rejecting the heat that's the result of your car's kinetic energy.

Goes to show you how long since I ordered any Brake Fluid. I need to flush and guess I go with the ATE amber DOT4 fluid in the future. Was looking at the threads on people wanting to dye their fluids to make blue. it was a nice concept. I believe the reason it was made illegal is that as clear fluid ages it turns green, actually close to blue. If you mix amber and blue you probably a shade of green.
As to the ability to perform threshold braking in a 3 second emergency stop nobody except a race car driver with full adrenaline might even have trouble with what you recommend.
Too bad the 123 didn't have good brake pads. ABS would have been a perfect solution allowing a computer to adjust pressure to prevent locked wheels again not on that '85 although some late 123's did have ABS.

The substance of my post was that my cold ceramic pads had insufficient coefficient of friction to lock up the wheels, which I would welcome under the circumstances to be able to slow the vehicle.
Now on the 99 and my '87 I have Porterfield R4S and with the 87 I upgraded to larger rotors, 4 piston calipers and the whole enchilada. Much better stopping power and yes, I can smoke the tires if I want to or have to.
DDH

Skippy · #10 11-21-2015, 12:15 AM

Where did you get your stainless hoses?

mannys9130 · #11 11-21-2015, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

Goes to show you how long since I ordered any Brake Fluid. I need to flush and guess I go with the ATE amber DOT4 fluid in the future. Was looking at the threads on people wanting to dye their fluids to make blue. it was a nice concept. I believe the reason it was made illegal is that as clear fluid ages it turns green, actually close to blue. If you mix amber and blue you probably a shade of green.
As to the ability to perform threshold braking in a 3 second emergency stop nobody except a race car driver with full adrenaline might even have trouble with what you recommend.
Too bad the 123 didn't have good brake pads. ABS would have been a perfect solution allowing a computer to adjust pressure to prevent locked wheels again not on that '85 although some late 123's did have ABS.

The substance of my post was that my cold ceramic pads had insufficient coefficient of friction to lock up the wheels, which I would welcome under the circumstances to be able to slow the vehicle.
Now on the 99 and my '87 I have Porterfield R4S and with the 87 I upgraded to larger rotors, 4 piston calipers and the whole enchilada. Much better stopping power and yes, I can smoke the tires if I want to or have to.
DDH

Yeah, they made the Ate Blue illegal a while ago and I was shocked. I had it in my mind to give it a try since the color change was a good idea. Oh well...

You're still missing the point about locking up the tires though. Locking is bad. It decreases braking A LOT which is not what you want in a panic stop. The braking power curve goes up and up and up until the tires lose grip and the curve plummets back down. If you practise threshold braking, it's easy. When you panic stop, if you hear the tires skid let up on the pedal until they stop, then reapply until they almost lock up again. ABS does this automatically, and I'm a big fan of it (but I'm a bigger fan of driving defensively).

MBeige · #12 11-21-2015, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

Goes to show you how long since I ordered any Brake Fluid. I need to flush and guess I go with the ATE amber DOT4 fluid in the future. Was looking at the threads on people wanting to dye their fluids to make blue. it was a nice concept. I believe the reason it was made illegal is that as clear fluid ages it turns green, actually close to blue. If you mix amber and blue you probably a shade of green.
As to the ability to perform threshold braking in a 3 second emergency stop nobody except a race car driver with full adrenaline might even have trouble with what you recommend.
Too bad the 123 didn't have good brake pads. ABS would have been a perfect solution allowing a computer to adjust pressure to prevent locked wheels again not on that '85 although some late 123's did have ABS.

The substance of my post was that my cold ceramic pads had insufficient coefficient of friction to lock up the wheels, which I would welcome under the circumstances to be able to slow the vehicle.
Now on the 99 and my '87 I have Porterfield R4S and with the 87 I upgraded to larger rotors, 4 piston calipers and the whole enchilada. Much better stopping power and yes, I can smoke the tires if I want to or have to.
DDH

I'm sorry to hear your experience is such. I once had to panic brake with my Akebono ceramics, and all 4 tires screeched and smoked. I had sufficient distance in front of me but I didn't want to risk it. Now my Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S tires have highway grooves on them that I'm wearing down ever so gradually.

Before I used Akebono I had Textars, they were nice and grabby too. I don't miss the brake dust from them but later on I decided to switch to Akebono. Rotors are still great (new ATE on all 4).

Whatever pads you use, make sure you properly bed them into the rotors.

fahrvergnugen · #13 11-21-2015, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

You're still missing the point about locking up the tires though. Locking is bad. It decreases braking A LOT which is not what you want in a panic stop. The braking power curve goes up and up and up until the tires lose grip and the curve plummets back down. If you practise threshold braking, it's easy. When you panic stop, if you hear the tires skid let up on the pedal until they stop, then reapply until they almost lock up again. ABS does this automatically, and I'm a big fan of it (but I'm a bigger fan of driving defensively).

In my opinion, you've missed a point as well. IF one can lock up the brakes, one has more capacity for being able to brake up to that point of losing traction. If you Can't get the brakes to lock up, then you are losing the ability to brake somewhere. If you think about this, who consistently brakes by locking up the tires? A novice, someone who doesn't have much mechanical sympathy, or someone that doesn't have to pay for their tires. No one does this regularly.

As for the type of pads, I am a big fan of Metal Masters and had them on all my VWs, and my Volvo 245. I've yet to put them on my TD, hope to soon. I've put it off since I will want to do the second generation W126 upgrade for the front before I do, hopefully with stainless lines.

Pity about the Ate Blue; wouldn't be the first good thing they've banned in cars for BS reasons.

mannys9130 · #14 11-21-2015, 03:45 PM

Locking up the tires means nothing about braking power. Braking power comes from the ability of the brakes to change kinetic energy into thermal energy RAPIDLY and in large amounts. Locking the tires dissipates no heat. Braking at the threshold and holding dissipates LOTS of heat and speed by proxy.

BWhitmore · #15 11-21-2015, 04:02 PM

Dust Shields: for the past 10+ years I have used dust shields on the front wheels of all my W123 cars (brand name Kleen Wheels). They really do a great job of keeping the Bundt wheels clean and the brakes work great with no fade. Does anyone else use dust shields? What has been your experience?