SBC in a 2005 E320 CDI - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Wodnek · #1 12-17-2015, 08:19 PM

Well guys, it happened. I have been driving my CDI about a month with a white warning saying service brakes. I pulled the wheels off and didn't see anything. I finally brought it into my indy, and it threw a code for SBC failure. He ordered a rebuilt unit, so i will be looking at a $1500 bill. It is an 05 that was delivered in 04, so no warranty. It did give me plenty of warning though, i never had to use the emergency system. I am having the motor mounts replaced too. I pretty much service the car myself, but these are a couple things I am not interested in doing.

Mileage of the car is about 218,000

mb911 · #2 12-18-2015, 06:01 AM

Am I the only one that read the title as "Short Block Chevy in a 05 E320 CDI"? Was interested to see how or why that would occur...

JimFreeh · #3 12-18-2015, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb911

Am I the only one that read the title as "Short Block Chevy in a 05 E320 CDI"? Was interested to see how or why that would occur...

No....

My first thought as well.

Jim

shertex · #4 12-18-2015, 06:37 AM

Wodnek, do you have any sense at all how the car was driven (in the sense of highway miles or not) over the course of its 218k miles?

Dan Stokes · #5 12-18-2015, 08:10 AM

I was with you folks on the Small Block Chevy thing. While I accept that the SBC is a decent engine I was preparing my "Why do people put SBC's in EVERYTHING?" speech - but never mind.

Sorry you have such a pricey fix ahead of you.

Dan

Maki · #6 12-18-2015, 10:53 AM

Wodnek, who's your go-to indy in SE Wis?

barry12345 · #7 12-18-2015, 02:18 PM

The cars computer keeps track of the amount of brake applications. In your case you have reached the first warning and your brakes are still fine. The unit has just reached the first count limit. So a milage call of when to change a unit out is almost impossible to quantify for two different cars.

For example a car used primarily only on the highway may see 400k or more before the count is reached. My opinion and it is only an opinion is to change the brake fluid at reasonable periods as this is about the only preventative measure available to the owner.

Unfortunatly some units have failed before the count is reached so there is no pre warning light at that time. Even installing a new unit unless they have been improved for durability does not substantially reduce the chances of another event of that nature.

The true problem is the units are not ultra reliable combined with a very poor back up system. There is no way to get around this easily. Either Mercedes should have made the units ultra reliable until the count indicator was passed or more concentration should have been put into the back up system.

Maybe Mercedes received assurances from the supplier that built the units. That they were ultra reliable well past the warning in testing. The testing would not have taken into consideration things like the brake fluid and its moisture content with time.

Although there is a possibility the failure of these units is happening in a way not related to the condition of the brake fluid as well. Mercedes or it's supplier is rebuilding these units and it would be interesting to know the exact failure component.

At least you were very lucky as you did not experience a premature failure of the unit. These can have serious consequences. You are also aware that Mercedes can reset the count to a higher number at this stage? Since you only have had the car a month I have to wonder if the light came up for the last owner and he had the count limit reset a little. Or just a coincidence. I just re read your post. The seller appears to have known the unit had exceeded the pre set first warning count. As the light was on when you brought it. Depending on the seller and the laws in your area you might have some recourse. so some of the stuff written after this does not apply to your situation.

I do not know how much higher though but apparently after years with this issue they sometimes do it. You could talk to a dealers service department about this. Anyways I understand completely the probe by Shertex but for the life of me cannot figure out any answer that would serve him well. At the same time I feel his car reaching the original pre set amount count wise is pretty good just not written in stone. It may be best when buying one of these cars to have a dealer give the existing count number and the limit count numbers that are set in the system. The count when purchased may already have been set ahead by a previous owner or the existing count may be getting close to the original factory limit. Even replacement of the unit may require Mercedes test gear to reset a new start the count reset. I do not own one of these systems so I have had no reason to totally familiarize myself with them.

Mercedes appears to think the original count safety limit was set two low apparently. Or they would have banned any dealers from increasing it. Obviously the units are subject to two types of failure. Worn out being the principal issue and the random failure of the unit. The percentage of random failures must be reported to the by dealers I suspect. We just do not know the numbers and if they occurred because the counting resets were pushed beyond the expected wear out point. Slowly we are getting some perhaps plausible information. For example accumulated milage does not have that much importance as an individual cars brake systems need for a replacement unit. Only the amount of brake system cycles instead.

Wodnek · #8 12-18-2015, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maki

Wodnek, who's your go-to indy in SE Wis?

Import Auto on old davidson Rd in Racine. Dave is pretty good

Wodnek · #9 12-18-2015, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

Wodnek, do you have any sense at all how the car was driven (in the sense of highway miles or not) over the course of its 218k miles?

Mostly highway miles.

spark3542 · #10 12-18-2015, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mb911

Am I the only one that read the title as "Short Block Chevy in a 05 E320 CDI"? Was interested to see how or why that would occur...

Small block maybe, but not short block! It'd be tough getting down the road with just a short block!

spark3542 · #11 12-18-2015, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodnek

Well guys, it happened. I have been driving my CDI about a month with a white warning saying service brakes. I pulled the wheels off and didn't see anything. I finally brought it into my indy, and it threw a code for SBC failure. He ordered a rebuilt unit, so i will be looking at a $1500 bill. It is an 05 that was delivered in 04, so no warranty. It did give me plenty of warning though, i never had to use the emergency system. I am having the motor mounts replaced too. I pretty much service the car myself, but these are a couple things I am not interested in doing.

Mileage of the car is about 218,000

Glad you got the white warning. I only got the red dash of death when mine failed.

Wodnek · #12 12-18-2015, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

The cars computer keeps track of the amount of brake applications. In your case you have reached the first warning and your brakes are still fine. The unit has just reached the first count limit. So a milage call of when to change a unit out is almost impossible to quantify for two different cars.

For example a car used primarily only on the highway may see 400k or more before the count is reached. My opinion and it is only an opinion is to change the brake fluid at reasonable periods as this is about the only preventative measure available to the owner.

Unfortunatly some units have failed before the count is reached so there is no pre warning light at that time. Even installing a new unit unless they have been improved for durability does not substantially reduce the chances of another event of that nature.

The true problem is the units are not ultra reliable combined with a very poor back up system. There is no way to get around this easily. Either Mercedes should have made the units ultra reliable until the count indicator was passed or more concentration should have been put into the back up system.

Maybe Mercedes received assurances from the supplier that built the units. That they were ultra reliable well past the warning in testing. The testing would not have taken into consideration things like the brake fluid and its moisture content with time.

Although there is a possibility the failure of these units is happening in a way not related to the condition of the brake fluid as well. Mercedes or it's supplier is rebuilding these units and it would be interesting to know the exact failure component.

At least you were very lucky as you did not experience a premature failure of the unit. These can have serious consequences. You are also aware that Mercedes can reset the count to a higher number at this stage? Since you only have had the car a month I have to wonder if the light came up for the last owner and he had the count limit reset a little. Or just a coincidence. I just re read your post. The seller appears to have known the unit had exceeded the pre set first warning count. As the light was on when you brought it. Depending on the seller and the laws in your area you might have some recourse. so some of the stuff written after this does not apply to your situation.

I do not know how much higher though but apparently after years with this issue they sometimes do it. You could talk to a dealers service department about this. Anyways I understand completely the probe by Shertex but for the life of me cannot figure out any answer that would serve him well. At the same time I feel his car reaching the original pre set amount count wise is pretty good just not written in stone. It may be best when buying one of these cars to have a dealer give the existing count number and the limit count numbers that are set in the system. The count when purchased may already have been set ahead by a previous owner or the existing count may be getting close to the original factory limit. Even replacement of the unit may require Mercedes test gear to reset a new start the count reset. I do not own one of these systems so I have had no reason to totally familiarize myself with them.

Mercedes appears to think the original count safety limit was set two low apparently. Or they would have banned any dealers from increasing it. Obviously the units are subject to two types of failure. Worn out being the principal issue and the random failure of the unit. The percentage of random failures must be reported to the by dealers I suspect. We just do not know the numbers and if they occurred because the counting resets were pushed beyond the expected wear out point. Slowly we are getting some perhaps plausible information. For example accumulated milage does not have that much importance as an individual cars brake systems need for a replacement unit. Only the amount of brake system cycles instead.

A couple things here: I drove it about a month, with the light on. I have had the car since about May. I have no reason to expect any wrong doing by the seller. He maintained the car perfectly since new, and always at the dealer. price was no object in maintaining the keyless go system, xenon lights, etc, as it was in ordering more options than most E500s or AMG E55s have. I put about 18,000 miles on it. I accepted things like $200 xenon lights when i bought it. This will never be a car for someone on a budget like my 124 was.

tjts1 · #13 12-18-2015, 03:53 PM

Came here for some hot SBC on W211 action, left disappointing.

barry12345 · #14 12-18-2015, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodnek

A couple things here: I drove it about a month, with the light on. I have had the car since about May. I have no reason to expect any wrong doing by the seller. He maintained the car perfectly since new, and always at the dealer. price was no object in maintaining the keyless go system, xenon lights, etc, as it was in ordering more options than most E500s or AMG E55s have. I put about 18,000 miles on it. I accepted things like $200 xenon lights when i bought it. This will never be a car for someone on a budget like my 124 was.

My misteak I quickly unfortunately interpreted it as being brought a month ago. Incidentally It is my understanding right or wrong that the same system is being used on some of their current cars as well.

Only on a couple of models I think I read some time ago though. Technical complexity is okay on certain brands of cars because they remain reliable. I have no ideal how the newest will fare as they age for owners. They are bound to develop problems beyond the owners ability to deal with.

DieselPaul · #15 12-18-2015, 04:58 PM

Mine died like 3 weeks after I bought my CDI!

Mine was still under warranty though.

SBC is a neat system with interesting features (admittedly most of the features are integrated into normal ABS pumps now) $1,500 every 150,000-300,000 miles of driving really isn't that awful. I've been around a ton of 100,000-200,000 mile cars that didn't have functional normal ABS and it would have cost $1,500+ to fix it. The difference with SBC is you can't decide to ignore the problem.