1995 E300 - Is this even possible? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Tim Wheeler · #1 12-19-2015, 07:13 PM

IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?

So, the saga continues on my 1995 E300D.

I purchased a 95 E300D. The PO had the vacuum pump R&R'd and in the process, the mechanic pulled the injection pump.

It was smokey and slow trip home. White smoke consisting of unburned diesel.

The PO sent me pictures of the tear down, and the engine is was not in position (14 ATDC) with the pump out. Also pictures of the pump did not have a lock on the timing wing..

When I turned the engine to 14 ATDC, however, I couldn't even see the timing wing. I had someone else turn the engine and the saw the wing at 12 degrees.

I adjusted it closer to 14 degrees, but hte pump was at the extreme rotation.. so the spline is off at least one tooth. But I was able to get it in view.

I put it back together, though and it still runs rough with lots of unburned fuel.

So I've decided to pull and re-install the pump.
I went past the drilled hole on the upper gear (in the oil filler hole) and went to 14 ATDC and went to look for the blade.. and its not there.. Now I'm thinking he was 180 degrees out of sync with TDC.

Is this even possible? Would the car even run? Could he have installed the pump 180 degrees out of sync.. and had ANY success?

Diesel911 · #2 12-20-2015, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Wheeler

IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?

So, the saga continues on my 1995 E300D.

I purchased a 95 E300D. The PO had the vacuum pump R&R'd and in the process, the mechanic pulled the injection pump.

It was smokey and slow trip home. White smoke consisting of unburned diesel.

The PO sent me pictures of the tear down, and the engine is was not in position (14 ATDC) with the pump out. Also pictures of the pump did not have a lock on the timing wing..

When I turned the engine to 14 ATDC, however, I couldn't even see the timing wing. I had someone else turn the engine and the saw the wing at 12 degrees.

I adjusted it closer to 14 degrees, but hte pump was at the extreme rotation.. so the spline is off at least one tooth. But I was able to get it in view.

I put it back together, though and it still runs rough with lots of unburned fuel.

So I've decided to pull and re-install the pump.
I went past the drilled hole on the upper gear (in the oil filler hole) and went to 14 ATDC and went to look for the blade.. and its not there.. Now I'm thinking he was 180 degrees out of sync with TDC.

Is this even possible? Would the car even run? Could he have installed the pump 180 degrees out of sync.. and had ANY success?

Yes, it is likely 180 degrees off.
It takes 2 turns of the Crankshaft to rotate the Fuel Injection Pump 1 rotation.

GregMN · #3 12-20-2015, 12:12 PM

Yup, off 180.
Been there, done that. R&R&R&R

So, did you steal the car ?

barry12345 · #4 12-20-2015, 01:10 PM

The easy check for 180 degrees out or close to it. With the damper that being the crank pulley at the specified number. The first cylinder cam lobes have to be pointing generally upward and in your case the injection pump tang in sight.

If it is not remembering that those cam lobes will only be generally upward turn the engine 360 degrees and check for the tang again. At that point if the tang is there the cam lobes will be generally downward and you have the proof your injection pump is timed to the wrong portion of the four cycles.

Tim Wheeler · #5 12-21-2015, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregMN

Yup, off 180.
Been there, done that. R&R&R&R

So, did you steal the car ?

Not quite. Knowing what I know now, I would have..

I got it for a little over 2 grand.., though, which, so long as I do the work, will work out well.

Tim Wheeler · #6 12-21-2015, 08:37 AM

So, yes. It was 180 out. I pulled the pump and rotated and re-installed, but I still have to bleed the hard lines and start.

I'm expecting great things. Still amazed I was able to drive from Jersey to Michigan running off of cylinder wall diesel.

Tim Wheeler · #7 12-21-2015, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

The easy check for 180 degrees out or close to it. With the damper that being the crank pulley at the specified number. The first cylinder cam lobes have to be pointing generally upward and in your case the injection pump tang in sight.

If it is not remembering that those cam lobes will only be generally upward turn the engine 360 degrees and check for the tang again. At that point if the tang is there the cam lobes will be generally downward and you have the proof your injection pump is timed to the wrong portion of the four cycles.

Much thanks to you, by the way. I found your post, stating the car would run at 180 degrees.. on another related thread, did a check on position from the intake cam gear mark.. and determined the pump was 180 degrees out.

It was a long cold weekend, but not much money spent. All that's left is to bleed the system..

vstech · #8 12-21-2015, 10:06 AM

do you have a camera?

we like pics.

Tim Wheeler · #9 12-21-2015, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

do you have a camera?

we like pics.

Yeah. Sorry. I took some shots for reference for reassembly... This is my first OM606... but I was under too much time constraint to think about that.. not to mention covered in black oil... I'll be better about that next job..

The PO's previous mechanic, who the PO thought was an expert because he was Polish immigrant who "cut his teeth on these engines" stripped one of the pump mounting nuts and left it loose. He broke one of the return hoses and patched it with a piece of injector hard lines with out clamps and hid it under the breather. (I discovered one of the injector wells was full of diesel fuel!!)

He took off the valve cover.. apparently to make sure he got ATDC right.. What a cluster.

He told the PO that the reason it was running rough was that he needed new injectors.. It acutally didn't run that bad when I looked at it, but it was smoking too much.

On the trip home, though, every time I stopped it got harder to start, and louder at idle. By the time I was off the freeway coming home, I had trouble keeping it running at an idle.

My wife thought I bought a lemon. (truth be told, I was kinda feeling like that, as well.)

I think his mechanic "cut his teeth" on THIS engine.

I did discover that it needs an engine harness. That will be next on my "change" list.

Tim Wheeler · #10 12-21-2015, 02:25 PM

Ok. Now I'm kinda hating the previous mechanic. I went to break the injector fittings loose only to discover that the PM torqued them so tight that I'm loosening the injector before the fittings break loose!!!

I assume you need a special wrench for the injector..

KarTek · #11 12-21-2015, 03:41 PM

There are a couple flats on the top of the injector for a wrench when you're removing the nozzle. You might be able to get a regular wrench on them to hold it while you remove the flare nut.

As far as the main injector removal, I bought a socket at Harbor Freight a number of years ago. I just checked and it's no longer available by itself, but sold as part of a $39 kit. There's nothing really special about the socket. It has a window in the side of it but for unknown reasons. I would suspect that a regular 22mm deep socket would do the job.

The proper German made socket is as much as the whole kit at H-F.

barry12345 · #12 12-21-2015, 05:14 PM

I might leave the nozzle or hard line nuts alone. Somebody was crazy. If you have a buddy available I might try running the engine on bursts of wd 40 spray down the open intake with the filter removed.

I am not positive if will clear the air out of the hard lines but can do no harm.

As the harness was seriously improved when replaced. Plus there were a lot of them replaced. If it was expensive a junkyard one might do fine. I do not know the cost of a new one though. I suspect someone can point out the differences between the old and new versions. Guys in our parts for sale may have one as well. The new replacements were probably bulletproof in comparison to the originals. So a decently safe used part to aquire.

I do not have one of these engines or have worked on one. Using the cam mark was good but I was hoping the cam lobes might have been visable without removing the valve pan cover. Probably not but with a small mirror maybe possible. I just did not know.

You might also consider changing the oil. But it probably has alreafy occurred to you. There may have been a lot of fuel going past the rings on your trip home plus what might have occurred with the past owner. We do not have a simple viscosity checker at a specific temperature available to us. The indicated oil level on the dipstick might give a clue of too much fuel in the base oil as well.

duxthe1 · #13 12-21-2015, 08:38 PM

Yep they will run 180 out. I found out the hard way. Had to install a pump on a 617. Put it in and timed it up and it ran like crap. Eventually figured out that somebody had forced the balancer on 180 out shearing the pins in the process! When I installed the pump by the marks it was 180 out.

I've also seen a 603 that couldn't be timed by the wing in the pump. Resorted to using the old drip method instead. You have to use the drip spec and not the "positionsgerber" spec though.

Tim Wheeler · #14 12-21-2015, 10:24 PM

Well the pump is in place and timed, but now it won't run at an idle. Lot of chatter. I tried adjusting it one way or another and it made little difference.

The car definitely needs a new harness.. is there anything in the harness pump connections that could be shorting out to control idle?

How is the idle maintained on the 95 om606 US?

Tim

mannys9130 · #15 12-21-2015, 10:43 PM

How does an engine run with fuel injected on the exhaust stroke?

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