Hard to find parts

[Blazemaster]

I bought an 85' 300d turbo about a month ago from a close friend, it is my 2nd w123. The auto transmission quit on him, but the car is in really nice shape both inside and out and I snagged it cheap. I have always wanted to try a manual conversion and this seemed like a good candidate. I removed the auto trans and started cleaning. I measured the crankshaft and lucked out, it was 35mm. I know some folks hate this conversion, but it's my car so get over it lol.

I have been prowling craigslist every night to find a parts car. Low and behold a few days ago I found an ad selling "w123 manual swap". I went and checked it out and it was a younger guy in college that bought the parts to do a conversion himself and never got around to it. I picked up an iron box 4 speed, flywheel/pressure plate, shifter assembly, pedal assembly and linkage for a good price. The shift knob is wood, but in poor shape. I will need a few more parts for the conversion but I'll save that for later.

I started by taking apart the shifter and found it needed some replacement parts. After scrolling through pages, I've found the part number I need but can't seem to find the part for sale.

I need 115 267 22 50 I believe its called a damper

Also, is there a rebuild/gasket set for this trans? I believe it is a 716.005 from the info I've gathered. I looked at a lot of sources and only turned up with automatic kits. If not, do I make my own gaskets?

I figured I would take apart the trans, and rebuild anything that looked bad. Some ham-fisted grease monkey broke the tab off that holds the speedometer cable in, so that will have to come off anyways to be fixed(I have the broken off tab, it was still held in by the screw).Any info is much appreciated, thanks!

[charmalu]

Did you remove the auto flywheel? and if you did, did you mark it to the Crank?
It has been mentioned many times here that the MB crank and FW are balanced as an assembly.
You will need to match balance the new Manual FW to the balance of the Auto FW.
You will need to source new manual FW bolts. They are Torque to Yield bolts.

Usually the 85 300D and SD have the 34mm pilot bearing hole in the crank. Maybe the engine
was replaced with an earlier one at some point.

I have not heard of a gasket set for these manual transmissions.
and not sure any internal parts are still available from MB.
I have seen Synchros from time to time on e-bay.

It does make it a different car once the manual box is in.


Charlie

[Blazemaster]

Charlie, thanks for the reply. I did mark the flywheel before removing, I am aware of the match balancing. It may have a newer engine in it, the car has about 415k and I didn't get any records. It is in amazing shape for a car with half the mileage. No tears on any seats, no cracks on the dash, wood trim only has 1 piece with 1 small crack. It even had the original spare in the trunk, unused with the original uniroyal tire.

Also, I did not get any bolts for the pressure plate. I have read that a standard 8mm allen head bolt 22mm long will work, anyone know for sure?

Ok so if no rebuild kits are available, what do people do? It seems like its in pretty nice shape, but I'd like to know for sure since it's on the bench.

[charmalu]

Do you have a copy of the Haynes manual for the W123? There is a good exploded views and tare down of the old Iron Box trans.
Looks like it does have a few gaskets.

The Iron Box in our 80 240 had 385K on it w/o a tear down as far as I know and work ok.
We got the car at 306K from the original owner.

Which transmission cross mount came with your parts? If it is the long skinny one with
two mount holes you will have to cut the end and drill a hole.
What works best is the 240D mount off a 240 with auto trans.
A wider plate with 4 mounting holes.
One off a 280E would be the same also.

Lots of threads from the past on this swap.

I don`t know of another type bolt that will work for the FW.
There is a measurement in the FSM on the neck size to see if they are in
with in range.
The price for them is $5 ea plus X 12. When I bought mine I used the dealer in Monterey, Ca, Stahl Motors
www.benzpartswholesale.com set up an account and get parts wholesale.

DUH... you were talking about Pressure Plate bolts not FW.

You may be right on those bolts.

When you get one of these cars as old as they are, ya just need to work through every thing to start with a new base line.
I wouldn`t trust that spare tire no matter how good it looks. It is still old rubber.
I have seen new one`s left in the trunk at PNP`s that were new. got a couple that were the light alloy stamped wheel.

Iam also on CL every night looking for 240D`s....cheap kind of like me.
Seems like every one is an auto trans. They must have made more of them. Iam going to Sacramento today and contacted one guy, but no answer.
I would drag the car trailer with me and drag the car back over the hill. It would be 2 for 1 trip. OH Well.
If it wasn`t so far to Portland , Or. I would be heading up there for one also. Can`t have too many Pieces of Yard Art LOL.

Charlie

[Blazemaster]

My "kit" came with 4 cross mounts. 2 of them are copies but there are 3 different styles. The previous owner wasn't sure which one was needed, so he just gave me all of em. I thought I read somewhere that a 240d auto version would work but I couldn't remember what that looked like on the spot. Not going to worry about it until I get to that point. I have a full machine shop at home so if I need to make a custom mount that's not a big deal.

Do folks just not rebuild these manual transmissions?

Oh and I don't plan on using the spare lol I will get it replaced. The car needs 4 new tires anyways.

[barry12345]

Originally Posted by Blazemaster

My "kit" came with 4 cross mounts. 2 of them are copies but there are 3 different styles. The previous owner wasn't sure which one was needed, so he just gave me all of em. I thought I read somewhere that a 240d auto version would work but I couldn't remember what that looked like on the spot. Not going to worry about it until I get to that point. I have a full machine shop at home so if I need to make a custom mount that's not a big deal.

Do folks just not rebuild these manual transmissions?

Oh and I don't plan on using the spare lol I will get it replaced. The car needs 4 new tires anyways.

If possible find and question the last person that used that transmission in service? If he noticed no problems with it I would not rebuild it. Total failure is not common on these boxes in general I believe. Worn syncro rings might be the more common issue if any.

The reason is that for whatever reason that transmission was designed for a lot more horsepower than it sees in the old diesels originally. It also was quality built at the time.

So unless something abnormal is found like excess bearing play. Although even that has to be taken into consideration as even new there may have been a little more than we are used to today.

I have two of these transmissions in cars and for all practical purposes both are still the same operationally as when they were new.

I believe parts are still out there for these transmissions but perhaps pricy. Other than pulling another one from a junkyard for them.

I still want a five speed for one of my 240ds But parts I understand are almost non existant. So it probably has to come out of a a roadable car I can test drive it in first. Or the seller has to be really trustworthy to me.

The five speed is not as robust and reliable as the four speed is either. Not that it is a bad transmission. So generally speaking people are not freshening them up before installation of the four speeds. Plus there have been plenty of change overs done.

Come to think about it I never remember even one of the guys being critical of the used transmissions condition even though they were primarily obtained from run out junkyard cars.

[barry12345]

Originally Posted by Blazemaster

My "kit" came with 4 cross mounts. 2 of them are copies but there are 3 different styles. The previous owner wasn't sure which one was needed, so he just gave me all of em. I thought I read somewhere that a 240d auto version would work but I couldn't remember what that looked like on the spot. Not going to worry about it until I get to that point. I have a full machine shop at home so if I need to make a custom mount that's not a big deal.

Do folks just not rebuild these manual transmissions?

Oh and I don't plan on using the spare lol I will get it replaced. The car needs 4 new tires anyways.

If possible find and question the last person that used that transmission in service? If he noticed no problems with it I would not rebuild it. Total failure is not common on these boxes in general I believe. Worn syncro rings might be the more common issue if any.

The reason is that for whatever reason that transmission was designed for a lot more horsepower than it sees in the old diesels originally. It also was quality built at the time.

So unless something abnormal is found like excess bearing play. Although even that has to be taken into consideration as even new there may have been a little more than we are used to today.

I have two of these transmissions in cars and for all practical purposes both are still the same operationally as when they were new.

I believe new parts are still out there for these transmissions but perhaps pricy. Other than pulling another one from a junkyard for used ones..

I still want a five speed for one of my 240ds. But parts I understand are almost non existant. So it probably has to come out of a a roadable car I can test drive it in first. Or the seller has to be really trustworthy to me.

The five speed is not as robust and reliable as the four speed is either. Not that it is a bad transmission. So generally speaking people are not freshening them up before installation of the four speeds. Plus there have been plenty of change overs done.

Come to think about it I never remember even one of the guys being critical of the used transmissions condition even though they were primarily obtained from run out junkyard cars. Basically it is just one of those assemblies that are so reliable. If it is not broken in some way you at best could only marginally improve it. Just my two cents worth for whatever it is worth.

[charmalu]

Here is the difference between the auto and manual X mount.

Attached Thumbnails




Charlie

[bricktron]

curious if you find a rebuild kit. i've never seen (nor looked for) one. i'm on my second iron box since the first one failed catastrophically. both have had worn out synchros. it would be nice to replace that.... i do have a third box to possibly rebuild, thanks to DeliveryValve.

[barry12345]

Originally Posted by bricktron

curious if you find a rebuild kit. i've never seen (nor looked for) one. i'm on my second iron box since the first one failed catastrophically. both have had worn out synchros. it would be nice to replace that.... i do have a third box to possibly rebuild, thanks to DeliveryValve.

I have a feeling that usually they stay as new for a lot of miles.Or at least retain that impression. Like anything they probably can also be abused. Just not sure of how behind these diesels.

For example. Would I want a used one that has more than say 300k. No I would seek out a lower milage one. Also I would check to make sure the oil level is still reasonable inside.

Many of these cars have seen endless miles with not much of a general nature ever done. Or even checked. I guess what I have been trying to express even though the older manual transmissions are pretty easy to rebuild it may be expensive.

I would try instead to source another one. As a general yardstick if the front drivers seat is still in decent condition the manual transmission in that car is probably still really good.

I am not really a gambler by nature either. Although my last statement makes me sound like one. There is usually a lot of other things on these cars that really need attention to spend the time and money to rebuild these boxes unless the need is obvious.

The reality is difficulty with these transmissions is seldom mentioned. To me it is even fairly rare. They are tough by nature. Unless they have very high miles on them.

[Blazemaster]

I appreciate the responses. I work as a job shop machinist, so my nature is to fix stuff when they are broken, and rebuild stuff when it's old. If it was any other car, 220k on a transmission is a lot of miles.

I have no idea what car the parts/trans came out of, other than it was a 240. He couldn't tell me the year and certainly couldn't tell me the condition of the driver seat. He did say he thought it had 220k on it. That is the extent of the info I received.

I find it strange that the auto rebuild kits are plentiful, but a manual one is nowhere to be found. What gives? Didn't think it would be this hard to find. So people just slap em in the vehicle and hope for the best?

I have to remove the back portion of the trans anyways to fix the speedometer mount

I have called around to a ton of yards, even ones out of state. I haven't found one manual trans for sale, except the one I have now. Not sure finding one with significantly less miles is going to happen. Plus I would probably pay a lot more for a new trans than to just rebuild it and make gaskets myself. Not the end of the world.

I did locate the damper bushing I was looking for, $22 bucks from the dealer(good god, its the size of a pencil eraser).

[Blazemaster]

Well I did just find this, but it doesn't really say or show whats included, I would think a kit would have more than 1 gasket

GASKET KIT. TRANSMISSION ASSEMBLY,GASKET KIT made by Mercedes Benz. #1152600168

EDIT: I also just called the dealer, and gave them the part # 1152600168, not in stock but available for $55. He said he used to sell the kits a lot, not so much nowadays. I asked him what was included, he said all seals and gaskets for the the trans.

[barry12345]

Originally Posted by Blazemaster

I appreciate the responses. I work as a job shop machinist, so my nature is to fix stuff when they are broken, and rebuild stuff when it's old. If it was any other car, 220k on a transmission is a lot of miles.

I have no idea what car the parts/trans came out of, other than it was a 240. He couldn't tell me the year and certainly couldn't tell me the condition of the driver seat. He did say he thought it had 220k on it. That is the extent of the info I received.

I find it strange that the auto rebuild kits are plentiful, but a manual one is nowhere to be found. What gives? Didn't think it would be this hard to find. So people just slap em in the vehicle and hope for the best?

I have to remove the back portion of the trans anyways to fix the speedometer mount

I have called around to a ton of yards, even ones out of state. I haven't found one manual trans for sale, except the one I have now. Not sure finding one with significantly less miles is going to happen. Plus I would probably pay a lot more for a new trans than to just rebuild it and make gaskets myself. Not the end of the world.

I did locate the damper bushing I was looking for, $22 bucks from the dealer(good god, its the size of a pencil eraser).

That part you got is an indicator of why even myself would not want to buy new parts for these boxes. Used transmissions for these usually bring few dollars when available at auto wreckers. If your transmission really only has 220k. When installed in all probability it will be like new almost. They are pretty easy to install and remove. Fix what you have to and try it chances are you will not regret it.

I am now just an old guy and have too much information in mental storage. I recall years ago some mention of these transmissions being used behind very powerful Mercedes V8s from the manufacturer. If true or not is one question.

If I were to be critical some of their sycros seem to be lubricant type sensitive to a noticeable degree. So do a little research in the archives about the best lubricant for them.

Also for mechanical advantage. It does not really bother me but the shift lever throws are longer than I like personally. One could shorten the shifter I suppose loosing a little of the mechanical advantage.

Mercedes was probably thinking along the effortless line or to minumise it as much as reasonably possible.

When and if you ever want another of these transmissions or used parts. Place an ad in our parts for sale and wanted section.. Someone will be sitting on them. They are just steadily becoming less easily available like a lot of other things on these cars.

[Blazemaster]

Here are some pics, I dunno whats up with the orientation. I uploaded them straight but when previewed some are upside down.

Here are the Cross members I got



Here's the broken Speedo Tab





Here's the Trans, I think it was pressure washed before it got to me





And here is the car, along with my other 300d in back

[Mölyapina]

These trannies were put behind MB's biggest six in the day, (and maybe even their 3.5L V8 -- not sure), so when used behind a 67 HP diesel, it can last basically forever. I wouldn't worry about rebuilding he tranny unless there are issues with it. You can check the input shaft play and replace the input shaft bearing if necessary. You can probably get synchros from the dealer, but they are probably a bit expensive...