Folks, if a part on your car is worn or damaged and it's a safety issue, just for the love of God replace it, OK? Everyone here arguing against replacement is arguing in favor of pushing worn out, damaged parts when the moment of failure is unknown and could kill you. That's simply ridiculous.

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'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
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Nice work!

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1983 123.133 California
- GreaseCar Veg System

In this debate, I think if the ball joint can pass the stress test, is free of debris (or even minimal if you are able to clean it out), shows no rust and can move freely before any servicing is done, it can be rebooted.
But If you see it dried out, has any debris inside or rust, you most likely have replace it.

Here are my thoughts on these examples.

First, both of these chassis (w115 and w124) are susceptible to having the wheel fall out due to the nature of how the ball joint is attached to the steering knuckle. On the w115 and w124, tthe main body of the ball joint is connected to the control arm and while the top of the ball joint is bolted to the below the steering knuckle. What happens is the spring pushes a heavy load on the ball joint by forcing it down.

Here is an example of a w124 courtesy of forum member davidlee.
See how the joint is below the steering knuckle...


Now on the w123, and I'll include the w126 for mentioning the 560SEL, the main body of the joint is on the steering knuckle and the the lower control arm sits on top of the ball joint.
As shown in this w123 pic from my youtube video.


The w123, and w126 design puts minimal stress on the ball joint as the control arm just pushes down into the joint as opposed to the w115 and w124 design where the joint gets pulled outward.

This design is more forgiving on bad loose ball joint than in a w115 or w124. But it does not give you a clear path to keep driving in this condition. You'll need to replace the joint right away because it could snap off.


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Attached Thumbnails

 

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1983 123.133 California
- GreaseCar Veg System

DeliveryValve gives an excellent description of the car in question (W123), which is why I said it would take Dukes-of-Hazard airborne driving for the ball joint to pop out of the socket. One person suggested breakage at the ball to stem area, but that is unlikely w/ forged steel and anyway is an independent failure from the OP's question "is bad boot = worn ball true?". One can easily test if the ball & socket are worn by prying on the spindle to LCA junction and looking for motion. That is what state vehicle inspectors did when I lived in such states.

When I rebooted a W123 ball joint, it simply had a split boot. There was still fluid grease inside and after scraping off the outer layer, I got to clean grease, so there was no debris inside the joint. I went further and cleaned out all grease, even using a Q-tip as far down as I could. The ball was shiny and looked new. The joint was tight. I packed in new grease and a polyurethane boot that should last the life of the car. Manny keeps talking about rebooting a worn, rusty, mud-filled ball joint that nobody else has suggested, i.e. a classic straw-man argument.

I suggest that everyone reading lookup funola's "Red-neck ball joint replacement" post and note who contributed to that post who is also commenting here (funola, me, ...). It is not easy to change the ball joint, so I wonder if those saying "just replace" have experienced the "just" part. There are cars where ball joints wear out regularly, like my sister's 1980's Astrovan every 20K miles like clockwork. She found that Chevy used the same PN in their small cars. A W123 is more robust. The one lower ball joint I recall replacing (was slightly worn) looked factory-original at 330K miles.

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1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans

^ Guess you missed his last paragraph Bill...

I replaced both of my ball joints. It wasn't hard at all. I compressed the spring and removed everything that needed to be, and then I used the press to pop the old ones out and the new ones in. It was a piece of cake. Of course I used the proper tools, not the "redneck" method where you might have luck but probably not.

You also must have missed the posts in this thread of ball joint failures that actually happened.

Like I said, if you're there the moment the boot breaks, reboot it. Anything else is gambling. I don't like gambling when my life is at risk.

__________________
'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
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Seems like a lot of work to replace the boot yet not take the next step and replace a $15 part (Moog, URO is $7). Delivery Valve, et al are correct that a failure on a w123 or w126 is less likely to happen w/o a lot of warning. It's a lot of work to get to the point where you clean & re-boot. Just about the same amount of work to swap out the BJ. I've been known to squirt oil into a torn BJ boot on a squeaker to get it back to the shop, or use on the property (not driven on the road) for a few days till I got the part. I just wouldn't tear it down to just replace the boot. I'd swap out the BJ. Just my $00.02 worth.

I have to agree with manny, never take a chance on a steering component like a ball joint (that also means never put URO or Meyle garbage in there, OEM/Lemforder only), it's not that expensive and, if nothing else, can make your car steer and handle MUCH better...especially on the highway where the w123, 124, 126, etc. really shine through.

There were a rash of threads on a 4runner forum about LBJ failures on 3rd gens (I have a 4th, but it helped to illustrate what happens when you let them go beyond the point of no return.) and it convinced me to replace them with OEM in my 95 E300. They "looked" ok at first, but once I really poked around in there I did find the boots cracked and oozing oil for who knows how long, and there was looseness to them. All-in-all I ended up going with new OEM steering bits all around and consider it worth every penny, if for nothing else the driving dynamics improved so much, especially when over 70mph.



Imagine that ^ happening on the freeway... oh wait..........

__________________
'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
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It is well documented in many threads in this forum W123 lower ball joint R&R is not an easy job. He has 190D's (2 of them) where the lower ball joint is much more accessible than on W123. It sounds like he has not done a W123 lower ball joint R&R yet.

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

To reboot the lower ball joint on W123 involves removing the steering knuckle only. With the proper tool to separate the taper on the upper and lower ball joints will take me around 30 minutes to get the steering knuckle off. But to knock the old ball joint out and press in a new one makes the job much more difficult if you do not have the Mercedes press designed specifically for the W123 and have to improvise like I and many others on this forum have had to do.

Don't forget, this is a DIY forum, where improvising and ingenuity often gets the job done. Very few here is willing to spend $500 in factory tools to do a lower ball joint.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Which car was the lower ball joint a piece of cake and what tools did you use?

edit: never mind, I see that you compressed the spring which is not necessary on a W123. Wait till you do a W123.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Here's a youtube vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2mBVRw_NfU which shows what the lower ball joint arrangement is like on the 190D, also W124, I believe also W114, 115. A much more dangerous design than W123, 126 IMO.

The ball joint shaft is straight (less beefy than the tapered shaft on W123) and secured by a pinch bolt. The spring is always exerting force to pull the ball joint shaft out of its wheel hub seat. If the pinch bolt is loose and lost or the shaft snaps (more likely because it's less beefy), the wheel/ hub instantly splays out with disastrous consequences if the car is at speed, lose control and crash.

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Funola knows, and please read his post (don't just infer things from the title). To replace the balljoint in the W123 in question, you must remove the spindle (upper ball joint, tie rod) to work it on the bench. To replace the boot, you need only pop the lower ball joint stud loose (pickle fork, 2 hammer method). Again, the "stud breaks" scenario depicted are not related to a bad boot. If that is your concern, you should be replacing your lower ball joints on a regular schedule regardless of boot condition. Personally, I don't think it smart to replace perfectly good factory parts w/ possibly inferior replacements.

Re failure scenarios, if the stud breaks or a worn ball somehow pops out of the socket, the spindle (& wheel) would still be attached in 2 locations, so worse case is the wheel would be cocked as in photo 1 of post 37. What happens then is that the tire and components drag on the road. You can still steer with the other tire, since I hope everyone knows that a rolling tire can steer while a skidding tire doesn't give direction. Our cars don't easily roll over like SUV's do. Indeed, just a common tire blow-out can roll those beasts (recall Ford Explorer issue). Photo 2 of post 37 doesn't appear to be a ball joint issue since the entire spindle is missing. It appears that the lower control arm snapped off. Many vehicles use stamped steel for that, unlike the forged steel LCA in a W123. Ball joints typically fail when turning in parking lots or hitting a pot-hole, since that is when forces are highest. The Sacramento newspaper tested a Hummer 2 when they first came out and a ball joint broke just driving in the parking lot. Perhaps not as rugged a vehicle as they appear?

__________________
1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans

I've replaced ball joints on several different cars with several different designs.

As I said, ball joint replacement is a breeze when you don't use the "redneck" method and actually do it the way MB designed it to be done. The job was CAKE on my 190D and it would be CAKE on the W123 because I have the press and spring compressor. I don't half a** jobs and it pays in the long run. I'd probably be complaining about the 190 job if I had to bury the control arm and hit it with a hammer...

The post of the ball joint is the same thickness W123/201 at the connection with the ball. It only tapers after that point, and it's connected to the knuckle past that point. The only thing you guys are counting on is that the weight pushes down onto the ball instead of away from it.

Hopefully none of you guys hit pot holes...

The wheels are both connected by the tie rods and center link. If one wheel gets loose and is jammed up, the other isn't going to want to steer. You'll just be along for the ride at that point.

I just don't see why you are defending the use of worn and damaged parts especially when it's a safety issue.

__________________
'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/302601.png
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/sideview.png

Just picked up the Energy Suspension replacement boots for a 1974 dodge challenger. Bill mentioned using either the pickle fork or two hammer method to break the lower ball joint loose so that the replacement boots can be installed. Question; I have this tool from Harbor Freight, would it work on the lower ball joints?

3/4" Forged Ball Joint Separator

or, do I need to purchase the OTC 8149 Pittman Arm Puller?

3/4" Forged Ball Joint Separator

or will the two hammer method work?