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  #16  
Old 01-16-2016, 10:39 PM
mannys9130's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
I have never actually had my AC fan come on high speed under normal circumstances unless I was deliberately trying to get it to run to test everything out (hot day, AC running, slow speed pulling hills in my neighborhood with a blanket over the grille), but the low speed mode will come on rather quickly in hot weather in summer.

I suppose it doesn't come on high speed because my car never exceeds the second line on the dash, 100*C, ever since I cleaned the radiator of debris and replaced the fan clutch in 2012. Oddly enough, though, my 95 diesel will get to about 95*c pulling hills at low speeds even in "winter" with temps around 55 degrees, but that seems to be about as high as it ever goes even at over 100*f.
My aux fan turns at low speed with the AC on a typical scorching day in Tucson. It never turns on high speed. I wired a switch in with the engine 110* temp switch that turns the aux fan on high in an overhead emergency, that way I can have maximum air flow when I need it. I can ground my electromagnetic engine fan clutch manually with a switch, and I can turn on my aux fan on high speed with a switch. The engine fan pulls and the aux fan pushes. Even with the most extreme heat conditions, the engine stays at thermostat temp with both fans turning and the AC stays cold.

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  #17  
Old 01-17-2016, 12:31 AM
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Several years ago when I replaced the old engine with the new one, I decided
to run an electric fan. I first used a Zirgo, (piece of junk, short lived)
and finally went with a 16" Spal fan. It`s a puller fan.

I used this relay that comes on at 100C.

Auxiliary Fan Switch Part #: 006-545-14-24

I also wired in a MB rocker switch from a W201 or W124. The one that has the red dot and 3 circular arrows.
I thought the red dot was a light, but doesn`t seem to come on.

With my daily running around on a hot day, it never comes on. Seems to be plenty of air flow even in city driving.

How ever let it sit a while idling, it will kick on.
Shut the eng off, and it will run till it brings the temp down.

I also wired in the orange Relay MSFrank posted. There is also a green Relay with a separate fuse.
I have found them in the yards in the trunk of later model MB`s.
I have them wired in under the black box on the drivers side inner fender.
I removed the plug and as much of the wire (in PNP) and wired this in under the box. then it all looks factory.

One is 30 amp and the other 40 amp.

This question has been brought many times in the past.
There has been much gnashing of teeth, wringing of hands and sweaty arm pits condemning the use of anything but what MB installed from the factory.

It is what it is, and wonder how many of these people still actually own one of these cars today?


Charlie
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2016, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123mike View Post
changed water pump and did not install rad fan. Since it's winter, not a problem, I'm thinking of using the ac fan with a switch in the summer. How great an idea is this? The ac rad is pulled. The plus seems like the engine is smoother with out it. Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
My 85 has a good running engine, radiator and AC condenser fins are clean, temp gauge runs at 82 C normally. I removed the fan and fan clutch April of last year and has been running that way since ( love all that extra room created). I added a snap switch on the thermostat housing to control the ac aux fan automatically as well as a manual switch to turn the aux fan on whenever I want.

In my experience, as long as ambient is below 90 F, the aux fan keeps the temperature steady at around 82 C even sitting in traffic. Above 95 F ambient, the aux fan cannot keep up in traffic and the temperature would creep up to 100 C and beyond. In those situations, I pull over, shut the engine off, pop hood, let the aux fan run to cool engine down. I will probably add a small electric puller fan before next summer.
My experience too - no fan - no problem for most of the year here in Northern Europe. The capacity of the radiator and the amount of coolant in a 300D is big enough for this.

But it all comes down to low ambient air temperatures and a block free cooling system.
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2016, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
the a/c fan control switch is a temperature switch, not a pressure switch.
You sure about that? He was talking about the one in the dryer.
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2016, 07:45 AM
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It helps if you have a cast iron block and head, it can take excursions into the upper end of the temperature range better than aluminum head engines. I would be much more careful with an aluminum head, especially during the test phase.
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  #21  
Old 01-17-2016, 08:17 AM
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On my W210 I have pulled out the aux fans and replaced them with aftermarket fans that are thermostatically controlled (can also vary when they cut in). I am still running the OEM viscous fan at the moment, tempted to remove that fan and run a much larger fan on the back of the radiator as per more modern cars.
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2016, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
the a/c fan control switch is a temperature switch, not a pressure switch.
No. The switch on the receiver dryer is a pressure switch. It energizes the low speed fan circuit when the a/c pressure reaches 300psi. (depending on model, there may also be a two throw pressure switch which protects the compressor). In addition, there is a thermo switch which is located either on the water out let or above the water pump (depending on model), which turns the fan on at high speed when the temperature reaches an absurdly high set point...usually 105 or 110.

This system isn't a rational solution for engine cooling. The only possible excuse is that it's intended to save a few horsepower so that the numbers look better. If you're trying to market a 79 HP slug to a luxury market, goosing it to 81 HP has advertising value.
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2016, 09:34 AM
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The 2-mode electric plus clutch fan on the 603/602/M103/M104 works well.

With the A/C on (in temperatures where you use A/C), the low-speed fans cycle often at low speeds / in traffic. The clutch fan also cycles on hot days, gently blowing hot A/C air over the radiator in stop-and-go traffic really doesn't give much engine cooling and the clutch fan moves massive amounts of air. I rarely get the high-speed electric fans on, but have had them run.

These cars are designed to be used in harsh conditions, from arctic cold to desert heat. They are tested in all conditions by Mercedes, extensively. I did instrumented testing in the 124 300TD when it was launched, we were doing accelerometer-based vibration mapping in the car, hot day and A/C on, full-throttle to max. speed and back again, ... I only blew one heater hose (was determined to be defective). Other than the defective hose (repaired and testing completed) the car performed flawlessly.

It is possible to replace the whole system with a proper electric fan system, but you will need to duplicate the amount of air that the current system can move to be able to run without concerns. This is a lot of air, which means a lot of electric current, much of it at idle when the alternator cannot put out its rated max amps, so keep that in your design (potentially a large alternator than your stock 45a-65a).

One could argue that the original system was designed for hard use in desert heat and is overkill for someone who might run their A/C in the northern states, which is somewhat true. The other side of that argument is that this design was with a new radiator (inside and out), no buildup on any heat-transfer surfaces (in block, head, etc.), and no restrictions to flow. I don't care how many citric-flushes you've given your old beats, there is some change from new in there.

If you do want to go to a electric only system, one thing I suggest is to use a heat-transfer agent (I prefer RedLine diesel water-wetter) to help the engine transfer heat to the radiator surfaces. Also, unless you live in very cold temps, use high-quality HOAT coolant, at the minimum concentration for your environment (within M-B specs) with distilled water, water is much better at transferring heat than anti-freeze. It will also make your heater hotter, one caveat though being that in my experience, the heated windshield-washer tank will frequently boil dry using water-wetter in the summer.
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Last edited by babymog; 01-17-2016 at 09:49 AM.
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2016, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
The 2-mode electric plus clutch fan on the 603/602/M103/M104 works well.

With the A/C on (in temperatures where you use A/C), the low-speed fans cycle often at low speeds / in traffic. The clutch fan also cycles on hot days, gently blowing hot A/C air over the radiator in stop-and-go traffic really doesn't give much engine cooling and the clutch fan moves massive amounts of air. I rarely get the high-speed electric fans on, but have had them run.

These cars are designed to be used in harsh conditions, from arctic cold to desert heat. They are tested in all conditions by Mercedes, extensively. I did instrumented testing in the 124 300TD when it was launched, we were doing accelerometer-based vibration mapping in the car, hot day and A/C on, full-throttle to max. speed and back again, ... I only blew one heater hose (was determined to be defective). Other than the defective hose (repaired and testing completed) the car performed flawlessly.

It is possible to replace the whole system with a proper electric fan system, but you will need to duplicate the amount of air that the current system can move to be able to run without concerns. This is a lot of air, which means a lot of electric current, much of it at idle when the alternator cannot put out its rated max amps, so keep that in your design (potentially a large alternator than your stock 45a-65a).

One could argue that the original system was designed for hard use in desert heat and is overkill for someone who might run their A/C in the northern states, which is somewhat true. The other side of that argument is that this design was with a new radiator (inside and out), no buildup on any heat-transfer surfaces (in block, head, etc.), and no restrictions to flow. I don't care how many citric-flushes you've given your old beats, there is some change from new in there.

If you do want to go to a electric only system, one thing I suggest is to use a heat-transfer agent (I prefer RedLine diesel water-wetter) to help the engine transfer heat to the radiator surfaces. Also, unless you live in very cold temps, use high-quality HOAT coolant, at the minimum concentration for your environment (within M-B specs) with distilled water, water is much better at transferring heat than anti-freeze. It will also make your heater hotter, one caveat though being that in my experience, the heated windshield-washer tank will frequently boil dry using water-wetter in the summer.
Great post! You did not include the 617 as having 2 mode electric fan. I do not recall seeing a 3 wire connector on the elec fan. How does a 617 with AC do the low and high speed fan? I have only observed one speed on my 85.
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2016, 12:58 PM
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I have never owned a 617. However, the 60x cars have a resistor for low speed, straight 12v for high speed, 2-wire motors.
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  #26  
Old 01-17-2016, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Great post! You did not include the 617 as having 2 mode electric fan. I do not recall seeing a 3 wire connector on the elec fan. How does a 617 with AC do the low and high speed fan? I have only observed one speed on my 85.
Hmmm... this is a good point. I'm not 100% sure the 123 has a resister for low speed operation. I'll have to look at the wiring.
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  #27  
Old 01-18-2016, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
Hmmm... this is a good point. I'm not 100% sure the 123 has a resister for low speed operation. I'll have to look at the wiring.
Haven't they all got that weird Frankenstein-like box of scary looking wires for this? Even my W201 (no ac but has a fan!) has this...
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1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #28  
Old 01-18-2016, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
Haven't they all got that weird Frankenstein-like box of scary looking wires for this? Even my W201 (no ac but has a fan!) has this...
Frankenstein box is for the cabin blower.
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  #29  
Old 01-18-2016, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannys9130 View Post
My aux fan turns at low speed with the AC on a typical scorching day in Tucson. It never turns on high speed. I wired a switch in with the engine 110* temp switch that turns the aux fan on high in an overhead emergency, that way I can have maximum air flow when I need it. I can ground my electromagnetic engine fan clutch manually with a switch, and I can turn on my aux fan on high speed with a switch. The engine fan pulls and the aux fan pushes. Even with the most extreme heat conditions, the engine stays at thermostat temp with both fans turning and the AC stays cold.
Wiring an aux switch to trigger my fans to come on high speed manually may be a good idea, especially in the middle of summer out in the desert pulling those beastly hills at sub-40mph speeds. I certainly would appreciate the extra A/C power as well. Of course I don't expect the A/C to be as cold as my much newer 4runner or CLK even in perfect working condition (also doesn't help the car is black on black), but I'll take what I can get.
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  #30  
Old 01-18-2016, 03:20 PM
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I understand that the electric rad fan in my W123's is actuated by the AC system only. The temperature switch on the filter/drier turns it's relay on above some temperature (40 C?, forgot exactly, I tested some spares and wrote value on them). It definitely helps since when I had a bad temp switch the AC barely worked at idle on a 110 F day (sat 2 hr in jam). If working, the filter/drier should not be too hot to comfortably touch. The relay is under the plastic box on the driver's inner fender (another relay for AC clutch too unless an 85 CA). Rollguy has a post rigging the fan to always come on when the AC clutch engages, but even at highway speeds where it isn't needed.

The fan would surely help engine cooling if you could actuate it to also come on with radiator temperature, though it is a bit wimpy for that world. Hot-rodders who sometimes must live w/ an electric-only rad fan like the 2-spd Ford fan used in Taurus etc. Once driving 30 mph, you don't need a fan.

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