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  #1  
Old 02-07-2016, 02:46 AM
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How hard is it really to have A/C and heat in an OM617 powered car?

I sold the one I had previously for that reason (among others), but at least it always ran and I mostly liked it. I have a feeling I may have to dump my w210 now that I changed the conductor plate and can't get the transmission working again, but I would like to still drive a diesel.
VWs are too hard to keep running and I don't really want a full size truck, so another OM617 w123 or w126 is the likely choice, but having a car with no HVAC for a daily driver isn't pleasant for most of the year. I just assume most of the old ones don't have any of the climate control working (I actually had a CL seller go into a big e-mail rant because I didn't interpret from his $2200 price on an SDL that the A/C didn't work or he would have asked more for it) but I suppose there is no real reason they can't be fixed. Has anyone bought a w123 or w126 and actually repaired all of the climate control stuff? I haven't ever done that kind of work, but I am curious what it would likely involve.

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Old 02-07-2016, 03:30 AM
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It is usually not too difficult to get heat from a 617 powered car especially if it is the type with the horizontal buttons on the dash. Usual problems are the mono-valve, and/or the solder connections inside the push-button box. On the other hand the A/C can be a lot more of a challenge, and will usually be more expensive to get operational. There are a lot of components and of course the 'freon' issue.
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  #3  
Old 02-07-2016, 04:09 AM
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I can't help you for your question....but about the W210, I might be able to help.

You need to clear the codes from the TCU. Even if you were to change the entire transmission, so long there is a code (doesn't matter what code) in the TCU, the car will remain in limp home mode.

Find a indy who can read the code from the 38-pin diagnostic port and clear it. Your car should drive.
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deplore View Post
I can't help you for your question....but about the W210, I might be able to help.

You need to clear the codes from the TCU. Even if you were to change the entire transmission, so long there is a code (doesn't matter what code) in the TCU, the car will remain in limp home mode.

Find a indy who can read the code from the 38-pin diagnostic port and clear it. Your car should drive.
I am afraid it is a bit worse than that, when I bought it I thought the transmission had been serviced, but I am pretty sure it was actually on the original fluid and filter at 230k. It was fine at first, then it started intermittently slipping on up-shifts when accelerating to merge onto the freeway even after changing the fluid and filter. I recently changed the conductor plate, fluid and filter again, then it was better for a couple weeks, but after that went into limp mode with a P0748 code. I wouldn't be comfortable with how high the bill could get to pay someone else to fix it and I am not sure how much more I want to try replacing without really knowing what’s wrong, so that’s why I'm looking at cheap OM617 cars on craigslist again.
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Old 02-07-2016, 10:12 AM
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You may want to look for one with a working HVAC system. Getting one with working heat is easier than heat+AC. My 85 300D had working heat but lukewarm AC (R134) when I bought it, I charged up the low 134 and it's been working well since.

Curious what year and model VW you find hard to keep running.
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2016, 12:28 PM
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If you go for a 201 or 124 you would likely have fewer issues with the system mechanically, but possibly more electrically, that is if the system isn't working properly when you buy the car. My 190D had great heat but the AC had some electrical issues and would work intermittently. I never quite finished track down the issue but I think it was a bad Klima relay, I replaced the push button unit because the old one had evidence of moisture getting on the board but the rebuilt one didn't change anything. I personally prefer a OM602 to the OM617 because of the more reliable AC system (among other things), as it is the same in my 190E and that works rather well.
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:51 PM
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x2 - look at later model 124s if climate control matters to you. If you really want a 617, I'll trade my 83 SD with working heat and R-12 AC for your dead transmission 210 You're probably bucks ahead getting a good transmission than selling a non-running 210 and expecting the proceeds to buy a decent MB Diesel with working AC.

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  #8  
Old 02-07-2016, 02:35 PM
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I am too tall for a 201, although a w124 might work, but the engine parts are so expensive, especially if you have to replace the head, and the later ones (the 5 cylinder 0r om606 ones) have transmission problems, electrical problems or both. I had originally been looking at those before I bought the w210, but thats mainly why I decided not to.

I have no idea whats wrong with the w210, its in fine shape otherwise but probably worth $4500 in working condition, and I have seen broken ones sell for a little under $2k. I have driven it for about a year and a half and it has been ok, but I kinda wish I hadn't bought it, and I don't think I can fix it this time.

I don't really expect that i can get enough for it to buy a older one with everything working 100%, but I do think I could sell the w210 for almost enough to get a mostly decent 300SD and fix whatever ir needs later. I probably also need to drive one again to remind myself how slow they are, I am not sure I could merge onto the freeway safely anymore now that they have installed metering lights in my area.
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2016, 03:25 PM
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Its not hard. My SD has Rollguys' Sanden conversion.
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2016, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83w126 View Post
I am afraid it is a bit worse than that, when I bought it I thought the transmission had been serviced, but I am pretty sure it was actually on the original fluid and filter at 230k. It was fine at first, then it started intermittently slipping on up-shifts when accelerating to merge onto the freeway even after changing the fluid and filter. I recently changed the conductor plate, fluid and filter again, then it was better for a couple weeks, but after that went into limp mode with a P0748 code. I wouldn't be comfortable with how high the bill could get to pay someone else to fix it and I am not sure how much more I want to try replacing without really knowing what’s wrong, so that’s why I'm looking at cheap OM617 cars on craigslist again.
Did you replace the pilot bushing on the transmission? It's basically the transmission plug....the old one had a fatal flaw where the transmission fluid would get into it and short the connectors.

Open up the TCU in the coffin box in the engine bay too. ATF is known to wick up the transmission wires and into the TCU, which it shorts everything.

The fix to both of them is to replace the pilot bushing ($10 at Mercedes or Chrysler dealer) and a bottle of electrical cleaner on the TCU.
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:08 PM
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I think you're looking across the fence and expecting the grass to really be the color you think it is. You should have the current transmission properly diagnosed before making a decision. There are few 123 or 126 cars selling for a reasonable price that have everything working and most of the major systems in top shape. "Top Shape" = recently refurbished and expected to be reliable with only maintenance needed in the near future.

IF your current car is in good shape except the trans, you could buy a a remanned and swap it in. The other option is to spend time shopping, buying something only to find that it too has issues that need to be dealt with. Old cars have problems because......they're old.
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2016, 05:21 PM
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I am with Junkman. If you can afford to get the 210 in order, do it. You already know what it needs. If not, understood also, but dumping that car with a bad transmission puts you in the salvage business, and things aren't rosy there.

If you find a car with everything still working, either it has been lovingly maintained and all has been replaced, or it just hasn't worn out YET. That second possibility keeps most of us very busy and PeachParts in business. Kind of like marrying a stranger.

On your other comment, the 124s will freeze you out if all is working as it should be, and they are in my experience a very reliable car if properly maintained / sorted. However this is only if running native refrigerant, which means R12 (or a complete conversion including condenser and compressor) in all but the '95 (just talking diesel here), which is the 606NA car, pretty anemic but faster than a 617 car. I don't remember the '93 having R134a but I know that the '94 was R134a with the high-pressure side completely redesigned. My cars run a steady 90C with the A/C on in 90-100F ambient, and on a -15F morning it will be showing 80C on the temp gauge in 1-2 miles with the heater/defroster blowing hard and hot. My only complaint is that the blower will not speed up (in auto mode) until the engine temp reaches ~50C.
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2016, 05:59 PM
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I had a w126 that wasn't in terribly good shape when I got it and I didn't mind fixing most of it, I just felt like getting the A/C and heater working was beyond my skill and I didn't really know where to start so I never tried.

Other than that it was much easier to maintain, for example the shocks took me about 45 minutes to swap all 4, and on the w210 I bought a set of shocks thinking it would be easy, and after hours of fighting with it to even try to get one changed I gave up and put it back together with the old parts. I also hate the ABS on the w210, although other than just driving it is fine. I am going to put a little more effort into getting it working again, but I would not be comfortable taking it to a shop with how fast the bill would climb with no idea if it could be fixed for less than just buying a new one.

I know no old cars are perfect, i mainly posted this because I was wondering if buying a w123 or w126 with the plan of repairing the A/C later was reasonable, or if its just not a car you buy if you care about that stuff working.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2016, 12:24 AM
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I agree, VWs are just a huge hassle. It's good you're steering clear.

I fixed both the A/C and heat on my 190D. I just need to address the vacuum actuators. It wasn't incredible, but the dash removal I will only do if I get a crack free dash to reinstall, and the A/C needs special tools.
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  #15  
Old 02-08-2016, 01:21 AM
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In my experience, the heat usually works ok. It's the AC that is the problem. I'm not sure why an OM617 would be any different than any other older car with AC. On mine, my mechanic replaced the heater-dryer units and filled with R12 and the AC worked. The second year I had a line rebuilt by a AC shop once it started leaking.

Now, as far as AC performance, could the cabin get colder? Yes. But, I'm generally just fine in it driving around in triple-digit temperatures. Someday my AC compressor will fail (or I'll get done with everything else on my list), and then I'll put a Sanden in.

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