Sorry to hear that!

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

To me the 61X series engines remain the only ones in my experience that can sit forever in horrid conditions and still fire up with some basic tinkering and elbow grease.

I have had many 61X engines start in fields with a battery, some fresh diesel, and a little tinkering

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

So there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes?

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84 300SD
85 380SE
83 528e
95 318ic

... and after 5 603 turbos, two of them "rod benders", and a 602 turbo (early head) and several hundred-thousand miles, I have had excellent service.

The internet is a great place to get bad news and opinions, facts and praise you need to dig for.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Yep.

I'm constantly amazed at the praise heaped on the OM61X series of engines I hear on this site. Having owned at least 5 examples of the OM61X series over the better part of two decades I'm mystified at the descriptions of toughness and reliability I seem to hear on a semi-weekly basis. I've done full-rebuilds on two OM616 engines I've owned, both had less than 200K miles on them and the failure mode was identical, cylinders bores were 4-6X out spec for taper in the last half inch of bore travel. Both engines ran OK but wouldn't start at temps lower than about 20F and used a quart of oil every 700 miles. I've also had an OM615 develop a cracked cylinder head back in the early 80's - and remember this was a cast-iron head. Maybe I just got unlucky but I can say I don't have warm-and-fuzzy memories of my times in the OM61X. Oil leaks, valve adjustments, ALDA adjustments, glow plug replacements, drip timing, injector shimming, nozzle replacements seemed to be the norm.

By contrast I've never even had the cylinder head of any post OM602 series engines I've had in service - and the all have used zero oil and start at temps where my OM61X's wouldn't have a chance. They are smoother, more powerful and more refined. Don't know if they would start on the first compression stroke after sitting in a field for a decade but I suspect they would - have no reason to think the wouldn't.

Now that I think about it I realize I've got quite a few OM61X service tools in my shop. I've got a pre-chamber puller, drip overflow tube, and one of those a-b timing lights. Anybody that wants them please PM me with an offer because I'm pretty sure I'll never again own an OM61X engine!!!!

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98 Dodge-Cummins pickup (123k)
13 GLK250 (135k)
06 E320CDI (323K)
16 C300 (62K)
82 300GD Gelaendewagen (54K)

This one took a battery, R&R of a seized starter, a little starting fluid on 7y/o fuel and it hadn't been run in 7years, ... didn't even have an oil cap on the cam cover or an engine cover. Isuzu diesel. Diesels are easy as these old beasts are mechanical: suck-squish-squirt-boom-go. Not much changes if it isn't seized and the fuel is reasonably good.

(when I bought R2, and today)

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Fortunately on the OM602 it's the same glow plugs as the OM617. Issue is that the intake manifold is in the way. I believe you can change them with the intake manifold in place, you just don't have much space. That may not be true on the turbo.

I would like to say in the defense of most Mercedes engines in general is that they are fairly durable. The M103 has its issues but I have seen many examples with over 400K miles. Same for the V8s and most other gas engines. The CIS system I believe is very reliable, it's just difficult to get it functioning 100% perfect if it has been neglected. 190Es are very popular for 24 hours of Lemons and other similar events because they are cheap and hold up well in endurance races.

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Current: 1975 450SEL, 83 300D, 88 Yugo GVX, 90 300D OM603 swap, 91 F150 4.6 4v swap, 93 190E Sportline LE 3.0L M104 swap, 93 190E Sportline LE Megasquirt, 03 Sprinter, 06 E500 4Matic wagon.

Do you think neglect caused the dead motors by 200k? Oil was also junk in the 70s and 80s. Domestics lived no where near as long. Maybe that is why late 617s and 60X seem to have more miles due to better lubrication and more modern chassis/HVAC?

I bought my SD just after 200k...with a working odo. 207k area, it now has about 247k as I recall. It starts in low 20s without a block heater, though I prefer to not start it like that as I like heat. No noticeable oil consumption, just a touch of loss due to a lean on 5k OCIs. Put 22k on it in one year a while back.





603 GPs on my SDL at least, are not too bad. The rear four are simple... just pull the cruise servo and access is simple. I think No 2 is the big pain in the ass...seem to recall going through the IP lines to R&R it. I have not done them in years. I did a set on a 603 powered 300D once, I think I removed that washer tank then the cruise servo. Been around 10 years at least now.

I have put over 100k on one of my M103s, from about 200k to just over 300k currently. Did a valve job around 265k and the crosshatching was beautiful. Compression test a few thousand miles after yielded 160-170psi on all six cylinders, great numbers for a 9:1 static motor.

CIS-E hates me on the 560. I cannot get the thing to start properly to save my life. Once running, car is fine.

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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

I'm fine with a couple of 617s. They always start in TN temps with just a glow or 2 with synthetic oil and a fresh battery. Nothing expensive has gone wrong with the engine.

The 24V Cummins that everyone brags about has a temperamental injection pump that eats $1,000 bills and 4 hrs install time when it goes out. It also comes surrounded by a for looks only Dodge truck that falls apart around the engine.

The Mercedes with more miles and years is much more enjoyable. Unfortunately, the Mercedes isn't a truck with straight shift & 4x4.

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

Second that,

On mine ('83 300CD turbo) replaced trans & 2 nozzles in 16 years, oh, & the AC dosent work. <- but this is SoCal, no need.

-c-

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"I applaud your elaborate system of denial"

Unless you want it for parts

Yeah, its a party of 2. I feel your pain man. The later generation 602/603 , 606 turbo diesels, 6?? inline 6 cdis are way better than the 61x. The 603 I don't like because you don't have any room in front of engine to work. It's just too long. I've had lots of each. An 85 190D with a 4 cylinder or a 1998 , 1999 6 cylinder are my favorites. I've had lots of W124s with 602 engine and they are great as well. But my 1999 E300D is my daily driver and favorite i've had for comfort, economy , and ease of working on. No more pressed in ball joints or vacuum and linkage driven 4 speed transmissions. It has Drive by wire, electronic fuel shutoff. electronic 5 speed transmission that is solid , traction control that works great, abs ... It has 230,000 miles on it and doesn't leak any oil and turbo is dry as a bone and i've never fixed any oil leaks except the oil lever sensor and that is a 5 minute job when your changing the oil. Knock on wood. Overall

Oil leak are were terrible headaches on my 617s. Plus the fuel economy is dreadful for a diesel car. Then you ave all the linkages and vacuum stuff. Give me a drive by wire and electronic shutoff over all that stuff any day.

The 617 is a ok engine. People like steel heads but i have never overheated one and can watch the temp gauge so an aluminum head doesn't scare me. I think the newer engines are much easier to work on. You have to pull the intake off a lot of them but that is a 15 minute job with an electric drill once you get the hang of it. I'd give one of the newer models a try.

In my experience , the best way to buy a benz is one with around 200,000 miles from a rich person that serviced it well. I've done that a couple times and came out with great cars. The time i tried to buy low mileage ones -- 150,000 or so , did not turn out as good -- I had to fix more stuff sooner . At 200,000 plus miles, a lot of stuff has been fixed by the PO.

Rant over.

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What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

I like my 617, unfortunately it needs to come out for all new seals (leaking ~1 qt of oil a week, I believe from the upper oil pan), and probably new rings and bearings and rebuild the top end. It also seems to have a lopey sounding cylinder I need figure out. Not looking forward to what it's gonna cost to do that though, and the front end needs to be rebuilt too :/

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1982 300D Turbodiesel, daily driver. Mods so far: Fram 8038 paper filter, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 (front) rotors/calipers, boost turned up to 12lbs, non-egr manifolds, water/methanol injection, 4-speed manual
1980 300SD Turbodiesel, project car, nearly ready to hit the street

1974 240D, New paint

I have had a lot more trouble with the older 60_ series engines than the 61_ series engines. Once the 61_ engines are put right you can drive them with routine maintenance for decades.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

You are definitely all alone in this frustration. All machines of age require love and patience. The OM617 is an incredible machine providing reliable service when care for.
As others have stated deal with one issue at a time and you'll have it all wrapped up.

Deep breathes.

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83 300TD (need rear wiper assembly dead or alive)
84 300SD Daily driver
85 300TD almost 400k miles and driven daily.
98 E300D *sold
86 300SDL *sold and made flawless 10 hour journey to new home.