Trans-X??? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mannys9130 · #16 03-28-2016, 11:35 PM

I don't want to research it Greg. It's about $100 with a full fluid change and the trans-x. You're more than welcome to post your research and math.

leathermang · #17 03-28-2016, 11:53 PM

I have a manual transmission....
If two cans are needed..... not unusual for initial service... that is $26 ...
Does it take $75 dollars in trans fluid for his car ?

dkveuro · #18 03-29-2016, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffgb

I have a 1983 300d with automatic transmission. The transmission is slightly slipping 3-4 shift, slight flaring......................................Thanks!!!

Have you checked the vacuum signal to the modulator ? and it's changing signal?
If not you may be chasing a ghost.

There's a very detailed "How To' by Steve Brotherton on his shops web site......

Mercedes-Benz Transmission, Steve Brotherton, ImportCar, February 2002

There's another at https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZilzFxqPkHUJ:https://www.scribd.com/doc/239523871/Vacuum-Procedure+&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us ............. but it is a cache version so no pictures. You can join or subscribe to view the original text at : http://www.scribd.com/doc/239523871/Vacuum-Procedure#scribd

.

mannys9130 · #19 03-29-2016, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I have a manual transmission....
If two cans are needed..... not unusual for initial service... that is $26 ...
Does it take $75 dollars in trans fluid for his car ?

Research it and see. Mind you, there's a pan to drain and a torque converter drain plug. You're able to drain almost all of the fluid.

Mxfrank · #20 03-29-2016, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

Have you checked the vacuum signal to the modulator ? and it's changing signal?
If not you may be chasing a ghost.

.

The vacuum modulator affects all shifts, not just 3-4. Using it to cover a flare in one range just masks a problem.

The K2 circuit is often the culprit in a 3-4 flare. The two "K" pistons emulate the two foot action of a standard transmission: they feather hydraulic pressure going to the clutch pack in order to ease engagement. When one malfunctions, you either get a flare or a hard shift in the one range it controls. K2 is responsible for the 3-4 shift, and that's where the problem is. The K pistons and springs are easy to check/change during a fluid change, it doesn't require complete disassembly of the valve body.

The other possibilities in a 3-4 flare are a worn clutch pack or clutch seal, or insufficient pressure due to a problem with the pump or governor. If it's one of these, the problem will progress to the point where you get no engagement at all.

Point is, when magic jamba juice doesn't work, look at the K2.

babymog · #21 03-29-2016, 10:05 AM

I thought that the K2 was for a 2-3 flare. Not true?

97 SL320 · #22 03-29-2016, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

We are suggesting it in case varnish has built up in the tiny orifices which are dependent upon GRAVITY and a little ball the size of a BB to block hydraulic fluid from flowing the wrong direction..

The GRAVITY portion of this statement is 100 % untrue. Reverse fluid flow is what cycles the check balls.

How about posting your statement to the QA department of these professional transmission rebuilder trade magazines?

transmissiondigest.com

Welcome to GEARS Magazine

As for other statements in this thread. If the valve body is that varnished up, it needs removed, washed with solvent and valves cycled. It may even need a complete disassembly to fully clean.

Changing the fluid multiple times _might_ do something if there is ample mileage between changes. ( As in 5 K ) But a valve body pull and clean is immediate.

An additive that swells seals? Some brands are pretty much the same as regular brake fluid, give them a smell. Sure, both will swell seals but what tells the swelling to stop? If the clutch drum seals swell too much, the pistons will stick in the bores, piston not fully retract, clutches will drag resulting in trans failure.

Yes, an anti slip / leak additive might get a trans to limp along but it isn't a permanent fix.

The only additive that does any good in an otherwise properly operating trans is a "shudder fix" friction modifier. This reduces the slip / stick chatter that some transmissions suffer from especially when the torque converter clutch engages. This additive is similar to the additive used in limited slip differentials to reduce stick / pop when going around a slow tight corner.

leathermang · #23 03-29-2016, 09:17 PM

Try this : The balls run in vertical holes... and if their movement is stopped or Slowed by varnish constricting them then the speed of the hydraulic clamping action on the clutches is slowed.... and you see a ' flare ' in the engine rpm which would be avoided by the correct speed of clamping by the clutches.

In the alternative, are you saying varnish is good for the inside of the transmission ?

Are you saying that there is no solvent which will dissolve built up varnish without hurting the transmission ?

Too many people have had dramatic results , like me, from the Trans-x for this to be a serious objection. I did not believe in it until I had a Rambler go from one speed to three speed with only the use of the Trans-x. I have had other great results, with front seal sealing on my Lincoln, and they are in the archives... I am the only one who worked on these cars so I know it was not some other variable involved.

http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/valve-body-valves.html

Mxfrank · #24 03-29-2016, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Try this : The balls run in vertical holes... and if their movement is stopped or Slowed by varnish constricting them then the speed of the hydraulic clamping action on the clutches is slowed.... and you see a ' flare ' in the engine rpm which would be avoided by the correct speed of clamping by the clutches.

The problem is specifically that a Mercedes transmission is flaring 3-4 shifts. This is a problem with the K2 accumulator, which is a piston. The flare is occurring because the accumulator spring is weak or broken or the piston is worn. As it happens, there is a ball stop in this circuit, but if it was stuck, the clutch pack would fill immediately and there would be harsh engagement. See the attachment for an explanation of what the accumulator circuit does.

FE240D · #25 03-29-2016, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

Have you checked the vacuum signal to the modulator ? and it's changing signal?
If not you may be chasing a ghost.

There's a very detailed "How To' by Steve Brotherton on his shops web site......

Mercedes-Benz Transmission, Steve Brotherton, ImportCar, February 2002

There's another at https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZilzFxqPkHUJ:https://www.scribd.com/doc/239523871/Vacuum-Procedure+&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us ............. but it is a cache version so no pictures. You can join or subscribe to view the original text at : Vacuum Procedure

.

On the Steve Brotherton link, he describes:

"The most common flare occurs in the 3-4 shift, with some occurrences in the 2-3 shift. The flaring condition exists due to a lack of shift overlap caused by slow filling of a clutch pack either through greater fluid volume needs of loose clutch packs or fluid losses through pack seal leaks"

If all other things check as Steve describes, wouldn't this quote mean that a greater flow of fluid, as a benefit of trans-x removing varnish, potentially would help the 3-4 flare? I too, have a slight 3-4 flare that improved -a little- with a simple filter/fluid change so, I plan on trying the trans-x in the next week..

babymog · #26 03-30-2016, 10:38 AM

Trans-X was suggested to me as a way to extend the life of a transmission that is starting to leak, either internally or externally, by a good friend who made his living as the owner of 2 high-performance AT shops. He also says that people use acetone added to their ATF, which produces the same result, but of course you need to know how much (obviously?) so it is not something that he suggests.

His comments (generally from memory) were that the improvement to transmission function are due to the solvent, which softens and swells seals that have shrunk and hardened over the years. Some of these transmissions will have shown improved shifting as the vehicle warms up, and the hot fluid softens the seals and swells them, increasing their ability to seal (thus showing that it is a seal issue).

Internal leaks are significant because the AT is a hydraulically shifted transmission, with metered amounts / flow of fluid designed to engage clutches at a pre-designed rate. If that fluid filling a hydraulic actuator is partially leaking out, it will move the actuator more slowly, or sometimes not maintain enough pressure to hold a clutch engaged. Slow engagement or incomplete engagement means more slipping, these clutches are NOT designed to slip as you drive, so they overheat and destroy themselves, or wear very quickly, ... if you feel slow engagement or slipping you need to stop driving it and fix the problem. The torque-converter does the "slipping", not the clutch bands.

As far as how much swell will you get and how does it know when to stop swelling? Good point. ATF and all oils have some solvent properties, somewhere I have a chart of all of the engine oils and transmission fluids available (about 10years old though) which shows a numerical value / coefficient to each relating to how much it will swell the seals. Each fluid is different, and this is part of why the old myth exists that you shouldn't change to a different brand/type of oil/ATF in an old or high-mile vehicle (changing to a lower swell fluid will often cause leaks/problems).

So Trans-X is a consumer-designed solvent-based additive, which can help to take a transmission from clutch-destroying need an overhaul now state, to drivable for a while longer, I do not see the down-side. Yes, it will need an overhaul when it starts to slip/flare again, but it did already, so adding a bottle of Trans-X doesn't really have a down-side IMO.

Is it the first thing that you should do? I emphatically say NO! Others above have suggested other paths, so to do I.

If it is having shifting problems, the first thing to check is all of the vacuum and mechanical linkages and inputs. DO NOT ATTACK THE SYMPTOM, FIX THE PROBLEM/CAUSE! When you add Trans-X or other repair-in-a-bottle,you're changing how the seals wear permanently, and it will not solve your problem (Trans-X is habit-forming, once you start you need to continue until rebuild).

If there's a vacuum leak in the system, if there is a mechanical issue (bowden cable binding is somewhat common), or an electrical problem (kickdown swiitch et al, you need to find the source.

If all of these check out, the next thing to do is check control pressure (takes a gauge), if control pressure is low at idle and normal above idle you most likely have internal seal leaks or possibly an aging front pump. Trans-X might help with the former, or with a combination of leaks and aging pump, but won't help with a bad pump. If the control pressure is just low, it often can be adjusted up with the pressure modulator which is on the left side of the transmission, if not then you're back to the Trans-X or rebuild.

dude99 · #27 03-30-2016, 10:43 AM

For what its worth, my 300SD had a a flare from 2-3 when I got it. Fluid + filter and a bottle of gunk tranmedic ( I can't get trans-x where I am, but from what I gather its virtually the same product) and over the following week or two the flare became less and less pronounced and then went away. It stayed that way for the entire time I owned it.

It's worth trying... I also don't know where the $100 figure is coming from. 8L of ATF is maybe $40 and one bottle of additive (trans-x or gunk) is like $15. $55 seems like a lot less than a new transmission + the hassle of installing it...

vstech · #28 03-30-2016, 01:19 PM

oh, I can easily see the use of trans-x costing some $100... those same owners would probably pay over 600 to swap in a used trans... or 3K to rebuild one.

deals can be had on everything. basic fluid could be anywhere from $2 to over $10 depending on brands.

posting opinions on which way to try a solution isn't a bad thing. also... if after the trans x and refill of new fluid fails to solve the issue, you can always drain the fresh fluid, and save it for the used transmission... so the 16-80ish bucks would be saved...

I have at my disposal a transmission shop that handles my needs for FREE!!! and I've used trans-x on my cars. it's QUICK, simple and affordable. a swap or rebuild would not be.

jm.02