I converted my A/C from R12 to R134a for $40 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leathermang · #16 05-18-2002, 05:24 PM

MtrDoctor12, You went from an absolute "not sold to the public" to " most " in item 2. I would like to defend some of the public.. like myself... who I think should be able to buy the kits but are not certified asme or own recovery machines...here are my reasons....
1. when I have a car which has freon it it I take it to a recovery station and have them check for leaks ,, and if any are found have them evacuate the system...
2. Most of my cars did not have any charge in the system when I got them...
3. When I work on them I flush every part. I had a gallon of Triflorochloroethane ( or close to that) in my refrigerator for 10 years (cost $40 a gallon).. this was 15 years ago... that was the legit flushing agent at the time.
4. I always put a new reciever/dryer on the unit if it has been open, or if a new compressor is being installed.... I understand how the silica jell can become messed up and how the little bag holding it can disintegrate...
5. I have a vacuum pump and understand that the system has to be cleaned of moisture.. and that is the only way to do that...
6. I use the oil recommended for the medium...
7. I read all I can about any procedure before I do it.....
8 . I have the proper gauges.....and use them properly....

9. I once built a great working air conditioner from parts laying around and installed it in a Karman Ghia.. it put out 28 degrees at the dash..( I have the same pro thermometer you have )(yes I cut a hole in the dash and installed it there... like factory if they had ever been available from the factory )... It had all the proper switches but my mind was fried by the time I got through.. electricity does that to me...

" the public " includes a wide range of abilities and attitudes... I don't think I should be penalized just because your generalized statements are true... Greg

dc88168 · #17 05-18-2002, 07:53 PM

I can see the reason why lots of mechanics do not like the ideas of the R134a retrofit kits around. Because they lost lots of potential customers--those owners of older cars using R12 refrigent.

The EPA regulations of R12 freon make owners of old cars pay outrageous prices for fixing their A/C system, or just annual re-charging. Then the retrofit kits came to our rescue.
Of course the mechanics lost lot of business because of that.

Actually you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the auto A/C system, especially the new R134a is very user friendly.

Following is the link to understand more about auto A/C system and do your retrofit:

http://members.tripod.com/~jbabs714/autoac.htm

David

___________________
1985 300D Turbo

leathermang · #18 05-18-2002, 09:22 PM

That is a very good page but it has one small mistake... when purging the fill line you should attach it to the low side before running some freon into it... you just leave it loose,, and slowly let some freon into it to push out the air AS you tighten down the fitting... if you just flush it and then put it on then you have air in the hose...If you have gages you need to do this also being sure you know which way the valves work on them... also,,, wear goggles and full face shield when doing ac work... lots of potential for being hurt and or blind the rest of your life... Greg

michael rybikowsky · #19 05-19-2002, 12:38 PM

This is some of the best info I have ever gotten on the site.My 80 has a slow freon leak.It cost a fortune to replace the freon.I am going to buy the pep boys kit and have some cool air.All of this enviro,crap is just that the leftest liberalswith a lame philosiphy looking for something to keep them alive.Remember acid rain.Thanks for the info.you leftest tree huggers can kiss my czarist postireor.Michael Rybikowsky.A name with a statement.

autozen · #20 05-19-2002, 08:08 PM

Michael,
Don't blame the tree huggers. They had nothing to do with it. Dupont's patent ran out and they told their congressmen, all of them, that it was time they started earning their donations. The rest of the world wants to go to a cheap and abbundant CO based refrigerent and many including Japan, Holland, and Germany have in stationary A/C units. They are still somewhat stuck with 134a in mobile air conditioning because of the industrial might of the US. If you want to find out what is going on in the world, you are not going to find out through local TV, radio, or the newspapers. The internet is a powerful tool to find out what is happening in the world, but unfortunately too many people use it for chatrooms, online banking, and downloading music. Remember, we do not live in a democracy as many FLAG wavers think. WE live under a two party system. I'm not degrading our folks in washington, they are all highly skilled. THEY ARE THE FINEST MONEY CAN BUY.

My observations which I can back up,
Peter

PS: This may be my last post before they bust in and take my computer.

#21 05-20-2002, 07:34 AM

I am enjoying this thread very much. There are so many controversial areas within the same thread, it makes for great entertainment.

I'll tackle the "evil mechanics" debate first. I really don't think that mtrdoctor is saying what he is saying about the death kits so that he can charge someone for his service. I fully expect that he has all the businees he needs, and will be billing his shop rate whether it is to rebuild an air conditioner that was destroyed by a death kit, or doing a valve job on the mayors car.

I believe that his point was, that once the system is ruined, and he has to do a bunch of work that could have been prevented by doing it right in the first place is very frustrating. I expect that it adds to his frustration when someone accuses him of being the bad guy, by the very one that ruined the system in the first place with the death kit.

The need to flush, evacuate and put in the correct oil is NOT merely some conspiracy by the shops to steal money from the innocent customers. There are very valid reasons for this being necessary. You can do it right the first time, or you can do the quick fix with a death kit, which will ultimately destroy the system costing MUCH, MUCH more money to do it right later. It's your choice.

The reason to take it to the shop if you don't have a vacuum pump, etc, is not to capture the R12 to satisfy the tree huggers, it is to see that the system is flushed and evacuated so that the job is done right. If you don't evacuate, there will be moisture left in the system which will combine with the refrigerant making an acid that will eventually eat a hole in something which will force you to take it to mtrdoctor so he can spend lots of time at his shop rate replacing some very expensive component. Of course, then you have mtrdoctor to blame for the expense.

As far as who is responsible for the lack of R12, I have heard these two arguments for some time. One argument is that Duponts patent ran out so they wanted to make something new to maintain their profit. The other argument is that the tree huggers demanded something more environmentally friendly.

I side with Michael on this one. If all the R12 in the world were released from all the air conditioners in the world, it would not match the atmospheric damage of one volcano blowing its top.

The choice you choose to blame for the loss of R12 from the store shelves is most likely connected to your political beliefs. All I have to say about this is that I believe that the entire congress should have had to spend July and August in a hot, damp climate before voting on the R12 death bill.

It's always amazed me that once someone is elected to congress they are INSTANTLY an expert on every subject known to mankind.

There is no one more frustrated about R12 than myself. I have about six pounds left and I don't know what I'll do when it's gone. Every summer, I cross my fingers and turn on my 124 air conditioner. So far it still works well. When it doesn't that will be the end of my R12 and may wind up being the end of my otherwise wonderful stick shift 300E.

Now that I think of it, the 300E is the only thing left on my place that uses R12. Of course, my old farm truck has no working a/c because the r134 doesn't agree with the Tecumseh compressor. Maybe next year I'll do something about that one.

My $0.02,

vince · #22 05-20-2002, 08:27 AM

There is an interesting article at www.import-car.com regarding many of the issues in this thread. Go to the site and check the article "A/C Update."

autozen · #23 05-20-2002, 10:18 AM

Vince,
Good article, although I noticed it was carefully written to not step on any toes. I was glad to see the article referred to the rest of the world going to a CO based refrigerent. Most of the supermarkets in Europe are already being converted to this cheap, natural, and abundant refrigerent. As an aside, anyone who has flown on a French Airline or traveled the backroads of places like Belgium, France, or Germany still won't be able to find any ice cubes.

#24 05-20-2002, 10:31 AM

So I've read all this stuff and don't disagree with those who argue "do it right" but I am somewhat surprised that stores like PepBoys will sell a product that, according to several very experienced people, can cause serious problems for the user.

But.....I think I'll just wait until my R12 system fails and then go see my trusted independent shop.

And for those of you who view our government with suspicion and distrust, bear in mind the alternatives. Most of us would agree that we need some sort of social system. A benevolent dictator would be great, but you know how that goes (he or she dies and we get stuck with his or her malevolent offspring).

I have worked in a state legislature for some time and have come to believe (took a while) that the crazy thing generally works pretty well. Not always, but usually. There are plenty of self-interest groups (and not all represent the ruling class) and some lame elected officials but you would be amazed at the number of "controls" inherrent to the system. Legislators watching, public agencies watching, staff watching, lobbyists watching, citizens watching, and the press watching. Bad stuff gets through and the big boys get their share but all in all, I'm pleased to report that it really does work.

I am conservative, obstinately independent, live out in the country, and hate to be told what to do so believe me when I say that you can take some comfort in what we have. Don't sell it short.

Nic

mikemover · #25 05-21-2002, 03:47 AM

OF COURSE the "threat" of R12 being the death of us all is bulls**t! Just like how we're told the EPA must save us all from the "threat" of diesel exhaust!

It's ALL political.

There's SO much paranoia in recent years about global warming...

In the 60s, many "scientists" were in a frenzy about GLOBAL COOLING!!!

So which is it?!?!?! What looming global catastrophy do we need to worry about next?

Gotta' keep the paranoia going, so they can keep the taxpayer-funded government research grants rollin' in!!!!!!!!

YOUR tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ fund this crap! GO VOTE!

Venting, again....

Mike

#26 05-21-2002, 07:31 AM

NIC,

It was amazing how well your last sentence describes me.

I agree with much of what you said in that post. What I really believe is that there is NO politician today at ANY level that can take credit for ANYTHING going well in the US. The credit goes to the founding fathers for setting up a system that has the checks and balances that you talked about.

I hope that we continue to be smart enough to prevent ANYONE from changing our constitution. The democrats, in their platform, call for a Constitutional Convention. This would basically be rewriting the constitution. This is the most scary thing that I can imagine ever happening to the good ol' USA. To me this is scarier than all the suicide bombers that you can find.

My $0.02,

mikemover · #27 05-21-2002, 07:41 PM

Amen Larry!

Mike

autozen · #28 05-21-2002, 11:52 PM

Mike,

It sounds like you are a thinking man, and this thread has redirected from a thread about air conditioning to politics. I can only add to your comment about every one going out to vote. If your'e going to vote, take the many hours required to go over the ballot issues and review the candidates running for office. What can be more importent in our lives than taking a few hours to determine the quality of our lives. One important reason voting lines are sometimes long is because, many voters wait until they are in the voters box to look at the ballot. Then they must recall who they last saw on tv that sounded good. It's the big money that can afford the advertising that gets the vote. As to changing the constition, I say why not if it needs to be done. It has already been done many times in the past; that's why the're called amendments. Has anyone ever heard of the 1st amendment, or the 2nd amendement, etc. We Americans think we are so great when many other countries think we are barbarions. Don't get me wrong; I'm happy to be an American, but I think we need to do some soul searching. As an example: we bombed the crap out of the Taliban, but how many innocent people suffered because of it. Not many Americans know why the Taliban was in power. The US government helped them to power, because there were too many random forces, and UNICAL wanted to put a pipeline through the country. It's all documented. Check it out. We've spent billions of tax payer dollars to destroy the country, and now we will spend billions rebuilding it. Mike, I'm venting also. Nic, I agree that America is still a great country, and it could be even better if the citizenry would wake up. What other country would I be comfortable in? Try Singapore. Think that one through. My thoughts.

Thanks,
Peter

mikemover · #29 05-22-2002, 12:24 AM

Some good points, Peter.

However, amendments do not CHANGE the Constitution, they just ADD to it. The core of the Constitution has never been changed, and should not ever be. It is very often IGNORED nowadays

, but not changed.

I doubt if many of those who think Westerners are barbarians have ever been here, or anywhere outside their own country. Or VILLAGE, for that matter.

Hiding in caves or blowing oneself to bits for some "righteous" cause seems to pretty much fit the definition of "barbaric" to me....

No country, or person, is without fault.

I apologize for helping to steer this thread away from the original question...I tend to get on a roll sometimes...OK, often!

Mike

#30 05-22-2002, 07:30 AM

I also apologize for pushing things even further toward politics in this thread, however, mikemover I'm still in tune with you.

I'm also very intrigued about how someone can make all these judgements about our country without ever having been here. It's also intriguing to me when I see how many things are blamed on the evil oil companies.

Also, that big money that is spent on political campaigns, like it or not, is one of the things that makes up the democratic process. To limit money spent on political campaigns, is to limit the democratic process. For most people, what determines whether or not money spent on campaigns is fair or not, is determined by whether their favorite candidate in that particualar campaign is getting more money or less. IMHO, neither party has the right to pass any laws limiting campaign contributions of any kind. In the past the money edge has gone to both parties at different times. The fact that a particular candidate is getting more money spent on them should tell you something.

God Bless America,