OM 606 Drilled too deep trying to extract a stuck Glow Plug - Page 10 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mikemass1221 · #**136** 04-14-2016, 09:32 PM

Awesome video funola. Unfortunately for me, a little late.

ROLLGUY - I was was planning on pulling oil plug this weekend to check for coolant.

I think there are good arguments on both sides for leaving GP and removing remainder. Bottom line if the one I choose doesn't work and coolant gets into the cylinder and I hydrolock this thing, the car goes to the junk yard.

Said another way. Trying this experiment either works or the car is 100% FUBAR. No in between. There is no going back to just "replacing the head" if it doesn't work.

So for argument sake, where would one find a refurbished 606 cylinder head? I have dealt with Potomac German Auto in the past. That would be my first thought. Any others?

funola · #**137** 04-14-2016, 10:48 PM

If the piston was at bottom dead center, it may still have a lot of coolant in it. Stuff the hole with a rag and place a bucket under the engine, turn the crankshaft by hand and see how much coolant comes out.

funola · #**138** 04-14-2016, 11:06 PM

Is this drawing a 4 valves per cyl 606 head? I thought the injector should be pointed straight down in respect to the piston?

Mölyapina · #**139** 04-14-2016, 11:42 PM

Going by the text at the bottom of the page (Model Year 1995 USA Model 124.131), it would have to be.

funola · #**140** 04-15-2016, 12:00 AM

So this from jay bob from post #48 is not true?

"On the 606 the dual overhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder make the top of the combustion chamber symmetrical. The pre chamber is dead center and the injectors point straight down with respect to the centerline of the piston."

The drawing clearly shows the injector is angled.

funola · #**141** 04-15-2016, 12:07 AM

jay bob also said in the same post

"The OM642 is worse - the GPs on that engine are nearly a foot long...same reason. No pre chamber on a CDI but it still has to get the business end where the action is."

Really? glow plug a foot long or is he exaggerating?

Edit: It's less than 6" long. He's exaggerating.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Genuine-TRIDON-Glow-Plug-TGP-For-Chrysler-300C-LE-MY06-3-0L-OM642-/151121276689?hash=item232f87af11:g:WhkAAOxy4XNSMrWr&vxp=mtr

renaissanceman · #**142** 04-15-2016, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemass1221

Said another way. Trying this experiment either works or the car is 100% FUBAR. No in between. There is no going back to just "replacing the head" if it doesn't work.

So for argument sake, where would one find a refurbished 606 cylinder head? I have dealt with Potomac German Auto in the past. That would be my first thought. Any others?

Nah, not necessarily. if the repair is done carefully you should not hydrolock the engine. If the remains of the plug is removed, I don't see why you couldn't install a custom made plug (and/or just a set screw and not worry about the compression change) in two places and seal the coolant in. if you were really worried about it, or if there is a breach in both the oil gallery and the coolant gallery, then just have someone weld it closed?

You'd have to have a lot of coolant dripping past the treads to hydrolock it...

You may consider asking this same question with some background on what we all have suggested at the practicalmachinist.com forums and/or some welding forums. Get the opinion of guys that see FUBAR parts all day and make them un-FUBAR for high $$. then post the link for us all to lurk and watch

jay_bob · #**143** 04-15-2016, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

So this from jay bob from post #48 is not true?

"On the 606 the dual overhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder make the top of the combustion chamber symmetrical. The pre chamber is dead center and the injectors point straight down with respect to the centerline of the piston."

The drawing clearly shows the injector is angled.

I now remember reading a white paper on this engine. I think it said the injector is centered but slightly inclined to enhance the swirl in the combustion process.

The point I was trying to make is that the injector is dead centered over the top as opposed to being off to the side in the SOHC engines.

jay_bob · #**144** 04-15-2016, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

jay bob also said in the same post

"The OM642 is worse - the GPs on that engine are nearly a foot long...same reason. No pre chamber on a CDI but it still has to get the business end where the action is."

Really? glow plug a foot long or is he exaggerating?

Edit: It's less than 6" long. He's exaggerating.

New Genuine Tridon Glow Plug TGP for Chrysler 300C Le MY06 3 0L OM642 | eBay

Tough crowd!

Those plugs sure looked huge when I got the dead ones back from the dealer ...much larger than the 61x/603/602 plugs!

vstech · #**145** 04-15-2016, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I am thinking opposite on removing the remains of the glow plug tip. Keep in mind that cylinder pressure will want to force the remaining GP tip AWAY from the prechamber, not into it. Having the back of it slathered with jb weld and maybe some kind of metal taking up the space between the jb weld and the plug, should keep the tip from moving. No matter how much heat or pressure it sees, it can't go anywhere. I think that any more effort to remove the remaining GP tip will result in the head NOT being able to be patched, and the car not drivable. Even if the tip were to somehow get into the prechamber, it will not go any further. It can't get into the combustion chamber (too big).

I'm not worried about the tip going into the cylinder... I'm worried about COOLANT going into the cylinder. Those breeches are large, and nigh impossible to seal... Best NOT to chance any coolant getting into the cylinder. Removing the tip, and sealing it is the only way I would ever recommend driving that car ever again!

Side note... JBweld is useless for keeping the tip in place... No way it could... Also, if the tip ever went INTO the combustion chamber, while it couldn't fall into the piston, it could CERTAINLY bounce around and seriously destroy the PC ball... And the PC, and the head...

funola · #**146** 04-15-2016, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay_bob

Tough crowd!

Those plugs sure looked huge when I got the dead ones back from the dealer ...much larger than the 61x/603/602 plugs!

Not really. Just want accurate information and not another myth started that CDI injectors are nearly a foot long.

Edit: You got the old injectors back from the dealer. Did you measure them with a ruler? How did 6" become "nearly a foot long"?

Speaking of CDI glow plugs, which are longer and smaller in diameter (148.5 mm, 5.8" long M8 x 1 threads) vs 606 injectors (116 mm, 4.6" long M12 x 1.25 threads), I'd imagine carbon packing would make the CDI glow plugs much more prone to breakage and much more difficult to extract a broken one. Is that true in real life?

Maxbumpo · #**147** 04-15-2016, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemass1221

So for argument sake, where would one find a refurbished 606 cylinder head? I have dealt with Potomac German Auto in the past. That would be my first thought. Any others?

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market

Only two show up, both in New Jersey at the same place: International Used Auto Parts, call them to get the price for stock # AA0058: 973-344-8929

There was a car like yours at our local LKQ a few weeks ago, they only charge like $100 for a head, but it's a full day of labor for me to get that sucker off. I'll check to see if they still have it.

Maxbumpo · #**148** 04-15-2016, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbumpo

There was a car like yours at our local LKQ a few weeks ago, they only charge like $100 for a head, but it's a full day of labor for me to get that sucker off. I'll check to see if they still have it.

Web inventory says it's still there. Price list says $76.

Maxbumpo · #**149** 04-15-2016, 11:56 AM

Refurbished head? I'd say get a used head and then have a competent machine shop evaluate and give you a quote for a valve job.

Plug the hole: I love the idea of the lead plug, and I would probably leave the remains of the glow plug exactly where they are.

funola · #**150** 04-15-2016, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbumpo

Refurbished head? I'd say get a used head and then have a competent machine shop evaluate and give you a quote for a valve job.

Plug the hole: I love the idea of the lead plug, and I would probably leave the remains of the glow plug exactly where they are.

Thanks for liking my idea!

Copied here from post #114

"I am thinking something like this:

Tap the 1/2" hole for a hex bolt (where the glow plug thread was, do not use pipe thread!) Make a plug out of lead with a pointy end matching the 1/2 drill point of the existing hole and long enough to cover the big breach area (melt some fishing lures and make a mold). Hammer the lead plug into the hole with a punch and hammer to expand it so it fills any space between the lead plug and the hole, then tighten the bolt and force the lead plug further in. I think lead melts at around 600F and it may work. You can always tighten it more to exert more pressure."

I would add here before putting the lead plug in, use a self tapping screw sized to fit the 13/64 hole and drive in in then grind the head off with a Dremel. This adds another layer of protection to keep coolant out of the pre chamber. Then put the lead plug in, hammer it to expand and fill the nooks and cranny then put the bolt in to press it in further to keep it in place. The lead plug seals the big gaping hole as well as provide a force on the remnant of the glow plug making the taper seal do its job.