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  #61  
Old 06-12-2016, 01:57 PM
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Smile There is nothing more expensive than a 'cheap' MBZ

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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
I have heard it said that "there is nothing cheap about a cheap Benz" (or something to that affect), and I totally disagree. This car was purchased at a fraction of it's value, and brought back to life. It is now worth probably triple what my friend has in it. This is only one example of a "cheap Benz" that has been brought back to life, and now has great value. The moral of this story is: don't give up on your car or engine if the vac pump seemingly destroyed your engine. This is the second one of these I have done, and it has been my experience that it does NOT bend valves or damage Pistons. This makes it fairly easy to replace a few parts to get the car back on the road. Yes you may have to go through a lot of disassembly (pan, oil pump, chain tensioner, cam towers, chain guide, pulleys and balancer, etc), but it is worth the effort. I have about 12 hours in this job, but that is a small price to pay for end result. It could have cost over $1,000 for a replacement used engine, and many times more for a rebuilt. The owner wanted to keep this car as original as possible, even down to the engine number. It was worth the effort to fix the original engine, rather than just replace it.......Rich
Excellent job Rich. 12 hours sweat labor, some old and new parts is a walk-in-the-park for an experience DIY like you. But it is a lot of money for someone who does not wrench and thinks he/she had it on the cheap. There are plenty of buyer's remorse example here.
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  #62  
Old 06-12-2016, 02:09 PM
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It is correct that a new pump is $340 plus but once again this is cheap insurance especially for someone with fewer skills, experience, and equipment than Rich.wbwhitmore III
An intersting thing that some shops deal with is covering parts for future short time failure, this usually puts an extra cost to the new part in question .In my experience if your going to let a mechanic take on the repair he generally will cover that part with added cost for this reason,thats why if you bring in your own part the warranty on that part is void in most cases.Rich maybe that exception ,but to call the part $340 plus would be more like $680 plus,,plus ,plus.
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  #63  
Old 06-12-2016, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasinthesun View Post
It is correct that a new pump is $340 plus but once again this is cheap insurance especially for someone with fewer skills, experience, and equipment than Rich.wbwhitmore III
An intersting thing that some shops deal with is covering parts for future short time failure, this usually puts an extra cost to the new part in question .In my experience if your going to let a mechanic take on the repair he generally will cover that part with added cost for this reason,thats why if you bring in your own part the warranty on that part is void in most cases.Rich maybe that exception ,but to call the part $340 plus would be more like $680 plus,,plus ,plus.
Although I do admit that I have been blessed with talents and abilities in fixing these cars, replacing a vacuum pump is totally a D.I.Y job for most of the owners of these cars. The 80's era M B Diesels are probably the most easy to work on, and in some cases easier than the same era Ford or GM cars. I have always thought of these cars as "tinkerers cars". Some demand a lot of attention, whereas others are more reliable and need as little attention as let's say a newer Toyota. As far as getting deep into the engine as I have with this car, it is not as intimidating as you would think. It is really quite simple and straightforward mechanics. Bottom line is, don't let a broken camshaft from a vac pump failure steer you away from a cheap (but repairable) 'Benz if you have the opportunity to get one. I would have loved to buy this wagon and have it for my very own, but my friend beat me to it! (actually he showed me the ad asking my opinion, and I said he should not hesitate)......Rich
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  #64  
Old 06-12-2016, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Are the valve face perpendicular to the piston top, which makes them less prone to bending? What broke the camshaft/ towers? What took the brunt of the impact? I've heard in VW diesels, when the timing belt breaks, valves do not usually bend and the engine can usually be put back together and run for a while till the weakened valve drops and destroys the engine. Have you heard of that happening in MB's?
The valves on the 61X engines are perpendicular to the piston tops. The pistons are very strong, and obviously can handle a valve or two slamming into them. The leverage on the cam followers from the valves is enough to break the camshaft, but not enough to bend a valve before the cam breaks. This one, the cam, towers, vac pump, and chain broke, whereas the first one I did (1981 300SD), just the cam broke. I put a new chain in just for peace of mind, as well as a cam and vac pump. This one was definitely the most damaged one I have seen...... Rich
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  #65  
Old 06-12-2016, 04:27 PM
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Hey Richard... I have your Sanden Kit for the w123 OM617... what is the belt size????
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  #66  
Old 06-12-2016, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dennislarock View Post
Hey Richard... I have your Sanden Kit for the w123 OM617... what is the belt size????
PM sending
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  #67  
Old 06-12-2016, 04:52 PM
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Rich - I would estimate that if a person had to have all the work done that you did at a shop they would spend in excess of
$3, 000 (new parts and labor). For those that do not have the skills/experience/equipment that Rich does, a new vacuum pump at regular intervals, plus checking the cam plate is cheap insurance. Regular oil changes, fuel filter changes, and valve adjustments are a must also.
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  #68  
Old 06-12-2016, 05:55 PM
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Post " The Mo$t Expen$ive Car....."

Is indeed a cheap Mercedes unless you do all your own repairs .

As Rich says , mostly they're simple and fairly easy to repair but few who buy cheap cars , do so expecting to do any work on them .

My Diesel Sports Coupe now has 407,XX miles on it , I'm still fooling with other things and wonder if I'm pushing my luck .
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  #69  
Old 06-12-2016, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWhitmore View Post
Rich - I would estimate that if a person had to have all the work done that you did at a shop they would spend in excess of
$3, 000 (new parts and labor). For those that do not have the skills/experience/equipment that Rich does, a new vacuum pump at regular intervals, plus checking the cam plate is cheap insurance. Regular oil changes, fuel filter changes, and valve adjustments are a must also.
I agree, but many (it may even be most) of the users here are able to replace a vacuum pump, and do other repairs that don't require a Euro auto repair shop to get it done. Besides, this forum is like having that Euro auto repair shop at your fingertips. If not for this forum, I would not be where I am today (car repair knowledge-wise). I am sure there are many users here that are capable of performing the same job I did on this car. However, I think the magnitude of this job would be too intimidating for some. I am here to tell you that it is actually not as bad as it may seem- You can do it!
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  #70  
Old 06-12-2016, 09:08 PM
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I agree, replacing the vacuum pump is a DIY job and the majority of forum members are capable of doing the job and hopefully they will at the intervals mentioned as I think it is a pretty good guess that many forum members do not have the skill/equipment that you do that brought your engine back to life. You did not learn your skills overnight.
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  #71  
Old 06-14-2016, 04:13 AM
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Based on my own experience, and a discussion with a long-time Mercedes mechanic, the vacuum pump failure starts with the original plastic bearing cages of the pump lever disintegrating. That allows the bearing balls to fall into the timing chain. As those balls are small and round, there's a good chance they will work their way harmlessly to the lower oil pan. If it happens at highway speeds they will be sucked up into the oil-pump intake and be safely trapped by the screen. After another 15 miles or so, the drive-cam will be cutting a trench in the pump arm. That's what happened to me with my Euro '84 300TD several years ago. Fortunately, by then I had reached my destination and discovered my loss of power-brakes, and the inability to shut off the engine with the key. At that point, I found no serious damage to the drive-cam - at least none that I could catch my fingernail on.
With the road and diesel-engine noise, I never heard any sounds of vacuum-pump failure. Only noticed the loss of power brakes when I got off the interstate!
Had I driven much longer, the lever would have broken, causing catastrophic engine damage. At highway speeds, I wouldn't automatically count on getting away without any valve damage.
At the time, I was able to buy a new replacement Pierburg lever & bearing kit from a local Bap-Geon for $260, but then discovered my pump piston had broken, which was NLA. So I had to track down a new Pierburg pump for about $300. For me, the easiest route to replacement was to remove the radiator (my TD is a stick-shift, so no tranny cooler-lines to mess with)
I saved that new lever & bearing and later installed it in the vacuum-pump on my '82 240D.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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Last edited by Mark DiSilvestro; 06-14-2016 at 04:26 AM.
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