5speed discussion pros/cons - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rjz5400 · #1 06-06-2016, 11:53 AM

So I recently came across a 5 speed euro 240d and I bought it. How can you pass that up??!!?? I started thinking about it.
I don't have a turbo car I'd like to convert to manual. I started second guessing making the swap and thinking I could use the money I spent on the thing back. This makes three w123 cars in the stable and we are needing to add a very reliable (newer ) car for commuting and whatnot.

Why did you do the swap?

Is it worth doing?

Is a lower gear ratio rear end and turbo mandatory upgrades for a 5speed?

What is one of these cars worth with all the 5speed parts? (except the heavy flywheel)

See signature for current lineup

here is the new car in question.

greazzer · #2 06-06-2016, 04:15 PM

I like the 5-speed. The conversion from auto to manual (4 or 5 speed) should be exactly the same. Folks are always hunting for the coveted 5 speed tranny, except they forget it's much more than the tranny, e.g., need shifter, correct DS front section, et cet. If you can grab the entire car, then that's a bonus in some regards. Right now, the "kits" are priced at around $2,000 (less FW) and the FW is probably worth around $300 plus shipping. Folks will most likely balk at the pricing, but that is what they are selling for. Toss in an engine, then you're at or over $3K. Of course, folks will jump in and tell you how they scored a 5 speed 300D or 5 speed 240D for $500 bucks and in the trunk was $5K worth of rare Euro parts, et cet. However, looking at how few of these really exist or at least folks are willing to post snappies of, I am guessing there are very few indeed. I look now and then on CL, and I do see them selling for around $2K, but then again who wants to spend a couple of days on the road driving to Tim-buk-too hoping it's not a CL scammer? OR, get there and the car "won't start" and by the time you get it home, you realize the tranny is seized, or so worn out, it's worth .10 per pound...

Keep in mind parts (excluding clutch, et cet) are virtually non-existent from what I can tell. I used to have four (4) 717.400, but I am now down to one which will go into my current DD shortly.

t walgamuth · #3 06-06-2016, 10:14 PM

I agree completely with Greazzer. He made all the correct points. I've had a couple and love them.

tjts1 · #4 06-06-2016, 11:04 PM

32k miles later I'm still trying to finds the cons.

gatorblue92 · #5 06-07-2016, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

32k miles later I'm still trying to finds the cons.

This.

I swapped both of my current cars to a manual and haven't had a single regret. The 240D (4 speed) is quicker of the line and can keep up with modern traffic... sorta. The 300TE was totally transformed after the 5 speed swap. The addition of overdrive has really given the car legs and it will now cruise at 70 MPH at 2200 RPM where it was over 3000RPM on the 4 speed auto while returning over 25 MPG which is pretty fantastic for a M103 powered wagon with over 270k miles.

rjz5400 · #6 06-07-2016, 08:47 AM

so it is basically the same to swap an existing auto to a five speed as it would be to make a 4 speed a five speed?

I mean all the same parts have to come off and go back on right, just the small work of adding pedal assembly and cutting the brake fluid res........

There is a "Local " Guy who has a 300td with a four speed right?? hows that setup? that would be my only turbo car atm and I guess I could part out the euro 240d once finished.

Thoughts on a turbo w123 wagon 5speed conversion?

Dan Stokes · #7 06-07-2016, 09:42 AM

I'm really happy with the 4 speed we pulled out of that 240D and I think the 5 speed would be +1. I'd offer the hoist but it's still tied up with the Volvo swap. I think you did well and will do OK even if you just pull all the 5 speed bits and sell it as a kit. As a conversion I think you'll do well, too.

So what are you driving these days? We need to have lunch and get caught up!

Best of luck on this.

Dan

vstech · #8 06-07-2016, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjz5400

so it is basically the same to swap an existing auto to a five speed as it would be to make a 4 speed a five speed?

I mean all the same parts have to come off and go back on right, just the small work of adding pedal assembly and cutting the brake fluid res........

There is a "Local " Guy who has a 300td with a four speed right?? hows that setup? that would be my only turbo car atm and I guess I could part out the euro 240d once finished.

Thoughts on a turbo w123 wagon 5speed conversion?

the transmission crossmember is different, and the front section of the driveshaft is different... so, no, you won't be able to just pull the 4 and drop in the 5, but the procedure is the same.

Dan Stokes · #9 06-07-2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

the transmission crossmember is different, and the front section of the driveshaft is different... so, no, you won't be able to just pull the 4 and drop in the 5, but the procedure is the same.

Or you could do the driveshaft like I did mine. The shop on 421 can make a US-style shaft for you as long as you have the adaptor plates like Jags That Run offer. Alternately, I'd guess SOMEONE in the US must have the Mercedes front shaft somewhere or we could ask our off-shore friends to see if they could dig one up.

Dan

greazzer · #10 06-07-2016, 04:26 PM

If you have the entire car, then you're set.

Since this is 240D and you want a 300D I presume, the only thing missing from that particular car is the front section of DS and engine (and maybe shift linkages). I have the DS front section, and I can send you the precise measurements to make one. The DS front section will cost around $200 to get custom made. So, considering you have the entire package, swapping out the engine is EZ PEZY since the car is already set up to be a manual and a DS front section is likewise EZ PEZY.

rjz5400 · #11 06-07-2016, 10:21 PM

again i am leaning toward doing a wagon, it is already turbo but automatic. the 300d I own is euro with a four speed. It is already fun to drive and I like it pretty well as it.

but keep the ideas coming if you have any, putting a turbo motor in the 240 might be more effort than it is worth, it has some really shoddy hinge pocket repair that i am not looking into getting straight. otherwise it is a very good example despite what the pics show (messy after purchase)

t walgamuth · #12 06-08-2016, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

Or you could do the driveshaft like I did mine. The shop on 421 can make a US-style shaft for you as long as you have the adaptor plates like Jags That Run offer. Alternately, I'd guess SOMEONE in the US must have the Mercedes front shaft somewhere or we could ask our off-shore friends to see if they could dig one up.

Dan

On my 39 Studebaker, Michael installed the mb five speed tranny, center bearing and took the rear mb driveshaft and cut off the attachment to the diff. He found that an end off a corvair half shaft matched the mb ds perfectly and to the ford 1/2 ton 9" diff.

It all looks like it grew there!

rjz5400 · #13 06-10-2016, 11:48 AM

Well that sounds like more work than I am able to get into right now. If I had a good turbo recipient it would tip the scales. But if I could get the money you guys think the kit is worth I can't justify sitting on it until I am ready to make use of it.

If Something else comes of it I will update this with the follow up thread but until then See the MBZ FS section for this donor car.