I'm posting this for my son, as he was having problems posting.

Hey guys,


So about three weeks ago I started to notice my clutch slipping and yesterday on my drive home from work it got really bad at highway speeds. I am planning on replacing my clutch and possibly refacing my flywheel in two weeks. I am just uncertain with what clutch to go with.


I drive a 1985 Mercedes Benz 300D with a 617 Turbo Diesel and converted to a 5 speed manual.




I have found three different manufactures for the w123 clutch.



The first two are the standard Mercedes OEM and the Sachs

Mercedes-Benz 230/240/280/300 (1977-1985) W123 - Clutch & Flywheel - Page 1


The Sachs clutch had two reviews and they were both pretty bad.




I also found some clutches by LK Performance

Clutch Kit to fit Mercedes 280 (W123/T123/C123) - LK Performance


I was leaning towards the Paddle (stage 3) kit. unfortunately I haven't found any reviews on this one.



Does anyone have any experience with any of these brands?


Is there another clutch manufacturer that I am missing?


What are you guys running for Clutches?



My w123 is my daily driver and I drive it very hard. I would like to replace the clutch with the strongest, stiffest, and most reliable clutch for the w123


Any insight at all would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks in advance.

So you really ' thrash ' that 120 hp engine....lol

any stock clutch set up should work fine for you... as the power , so to speak , does not spool up until a little higher rpm's than most cars...

so the questions start with whether you were in charge of the change over and know what was installed which seems to not be working now...

and did you use a 5 cylinder Flywheel when the conversion was done ?

__________________
1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/10414-help-i-need-check-stretch.html

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/156207-photo-step-step-post-showing-w123-evaporator-removal-1983-240d-1982-300td.html?highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

Use only clutch discs with organic facing for road use. Kevlar and sintered metallic facings will chatter quite badly when used in street applications.

Sachs is on OEM supplier, and is of high quality, as are LUK, and Valeo.

I can only relay my experience - so a data point of 1 (bad statistical practice right there). After I doubled the HP from my OM617 the Sachs replacement clutch wouldn't hold the HP. After a bit of fiddling I found that the disc from a BMW 320i will fit properly. I went with a sintered copper 6 puck from FX and it holds the power well using the stock Sachs pressure plate. It's a bit grabbier than the organic disc but not bad. My truck is race-only but I think you could live with it on the street though I have zero experience with that. I'm running the Getrag 4 speed from a 240D and I don't know how that would bear on the setup.

Dan

Watch out with a clutch from the 280 as in my experience its a half inch larger in diameter so won't fit in a diesel flywheel. If you can find a 280e flywheel that should bolt up but they are pretty scarce. I found one from a 280 SL in a yard out west somewhere.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

The 240 flywheel (and I'd guess a real 617 flywheel, too though I don't have one) are 8 1/2" in Gringo measurements - I forget the metric number. Tom's right about some of the other Mercedes having a 9" disc and they won't fit in the dished flywheel on the 616/617. At least, that's what I'm remembering.

Dan

Before rushing into purchasing decisions, especially where aftermarket parts are involved, it seems fair to ask about the time in service of the presently installed clutch, about the possibility of oil on the disc, and about indications of disc wear. The same clutch was installed with both 616 and 617 engines, and when free of oil and within wear limits, is entirely sufficient for the original applications.

...but I am not sure they ever offered the turbo motor with a stick.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Hey guys,

My dad posted this thread for me because it wouldn't let me post. Unfortunately I do not have that much information about the engine swap and the 5 speed manual conversion as I was not the one to do that nor was the previous owner.

I can say that I have owned this car over three years now and never had a problem with the clutch until now. I am uncertain if there is oil leaking into the clutch. I read that can happen though and was almost thinking of just buying a new crank seal so I have it if I need it when the engine is pulled.

I should mention that this is my only car and I can only have my shared garage tied up like this for 5 days so I'm trying to be prepared for anything I might need.

Thanks for the tip on only going with organic clutch discs, I will keep that in mind. I am planning on have everything I need ordered by Tuesday (07/19). I would like to go with the Sachs clutch but the two bad ratings have me questioning that and considering the LK instead. Anyone have any experiences with the Sachs clutch? Good or bad.

5 Days max garage limit....
yikes...
' the best laid plans of mice and men ' always hits me...
Good Luck .

__________________
1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=10414

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/156207-photo-step-step-post-showing-w123-evaporator-removal-1983-240d-1982-300td.html?highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

Best of luck with that. The rear seal is not something you will be able to get done in those 5 days... You need to pull the engine and loosen or remove the crankshaft to get a new one in....

__________________
2004 F150 4.6L -My Daily
2007 Volvo XC70 -Wife's Daily
1998 Ford F150 -Rear ended
1989 J-spec 420SEL -passed onto its new keeper
1982 BMW 733i -fixed and traded for the 420SEL
2003 Volvo V70 5 Speed -scrapped
1997 E290 Turbo Diesel Wagon -traded for above
1992 BMW 525i -traded in
1990 Silver 300TE -hated the M103
1985 Grey 380SE Diesel Conversion, 2.47 rear end, ABS -Sold, really should have kept this one
1979 Silver 300D "The Silver Slug" -Sold

As an aside, the rear seal is not known for leaking much. I'd look at the clutch to see what's up with it.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Kb:

As noted previously, Sachs is one of the OE suppliers to MB (among others). If it does not otherwise infringe on professional or ethical constraints, an ability to read the negative reviews in their original context would help in understanding your concerns. In other words, there is quite often a situation where folks sound off about the materials, when there may be, in fact, other factors which are left undisclosed.

As to torque capacity, Mother Benz, among manufacturers, has been notably conservative. Your experience, to date, would seem to confirm this opinion. Three years of, ahem, hard driving on a 81/2" clutch, and only now (history unknown) does it begin to slip!?

Let me add that I ran the stock Sachs clutch (bought from Pelican) for a whole race season with no issues. It only became an issue when I upped the HP to about 2X the factory levels. When I pulled the Sachs disc it actually looked OK - but it just couldn't hold the new power. I'm still using the Sachs pressure plate.

As you pre-plan, make sure you have lined up a shop to turn your flywheel properly. This has been mentioned on here before but the pressure plate step MUST be turned that same amount as is removed from the friction surface or the clutch won't work well at all. Our local AAMCO shop did mine but I'm not sure all are equipped (or skilled) enough to do this job.

Dan

I never heard of turning a pressure plate...seems like a good idea though.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.