This forum is very quiet these days. Why?

[rasper]

Another factor seems to be the decline in all forums that deal with hard, dirty work. I am active in a number of metal working, metal casting, and metal polishing forums, and the participation in all of them has dropped dramatically over the past three or four years. I attribute this to the dying off of the people who grew up in a basement or garage workshop. About all that remains now are people who grew up in front of a television screen. They spend their time on Facebook posting pictures of their cats and their children. The guys who can actually make, or fix, things are disappearing rapidly. We are a dying breed.

Richard

[moon161]

Originally Posted by rasper

Another factor seems to be the decline in all forums that deal with hard, dirty work. I am active in a number of metal working, metal casting, and metal polishing forums, and the participation in all of them has dropped dramatically over the past three or four years. I attribute this to the dying off of the people who grew up in a basement or garage workshop. About all that remains now are people who grew up in front of a television screen. They spend their time on Facebook posting pictures of their cats and their children. The guys who can actually make, or fix, things are disappearing rapidly. We are a dying breed.

Richard

Sad,

At my job I've been converting lots of old pencil/ink and obsolete cad drawings in to contemporary 3D CAD, lots of them are complex castings. I've really come to appreciate the people who worked on the drawings and the forms. There is some genuine and valid critique of modernism that very effectively takes the person out of or minimally includes them in productive and commodified processes.

[derburger]

I had a stick 82 240d for 6mos before dumping it on craigslist. It had a good body & paint, drove fine. The problem with it was you just had to replace everything due to age and wear.

I made up a laundry list of what it needed to be anything other than a decaying beater:

Front brakes, all brake hoses, master cylinder
4 new shocks, new front & rear suspension, rebuilt steering box
Motor mounts, oil cooler hoses, cooling hoses, belts, rebuilt fuel injectors, maybe a timing chain
New set of tires, 2 new CV axles, flex discs & driveshaft mounts
Heater core replaced, A/C compressor replaced and system serviced
Shift bushings
Modern stereo install
Replace cracked dashboard & wood

...All that effort and money for a car that'll get you rear-ended when you pull onto the road. Just pointless. That being said, if I can find a supernice 82-85 300CD or TD, I'm in.

[daw_two]

Originally Posted by shertex

None of my diesels has any issues currently....but whenever I need to deal with something I always post!

Agree and also whenever I buy a "new" one.

[jake12tech]

It's sad to see the newer generation doesn't know how to turn a wrench and can only play XBOX. I love these cars and if had the opportunity, I'd have an easy 20-30 project cars and parts cars. They're cheap enough to buy for $500 a pop and have another parts car with it to make a good car. I've already got a problem and have like two more cars on the way. I'm gonna run out of room soon and have to start parking cars on my roof.

[ROLLGUY]

Originally Posted by jake12tech

I've already got a problem and have like two more cars on the way. I'm gonna run out of room soon and have to start parking cars on my roof.

Problem? I don't see any problem there!

[jake12tech]

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

Problem? I don't see any problem there!

Nope, not at all!

[97 SL320]

There are few reasons not many people know how to fix things:

Stuff just doesn't break that often these days.

For the most part, stuff is way less expensive than in days gone by so it tends not to get fixed as labor outstrips the cost of a new one. Anyone have their umbrella fixed lately? How about shoe repair? Run a good old days price through this to equalize US dollars. http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Working hands on is considered low class, it's something that you do because you were too stupid to do anything else. ( I don't subscribe to that line of thought. )

At least in the US, the trend is to push kids into college degrees even if the skills they attain are mostly useless. Sports marketing , Fashion marketing , Art , Music are a few of the degrees floating around the factory floor at the company I work for. The work they are doing only requires the ability to read a ruler, dial caliper and very basic blue print reading, and that's only so they can verify the machine is still making a good part. These kids are also saddled with debt ( Like $ 40 K + ) that will take years to pay off with the jobs they have or are likely to get in the future.

It doesn't get much brighter on the useful college degree end of things either. A few years ago we hired 2 early / mid career electrical engineers that didn't know what a diode was or how it works, . .or why it is placed across a relay coil when using DC. Granted, electrical engineering is a very broad field but one of these guys previous jobs was drawing up power supplies. . . .

A very early career electrical engineer we hired has very good practical skills, however he said that comes from working on various projects at home as college taught him little.

Even a 2 year electrical engineering / electro-mechanical technology degree isn't of much help. We have a maintenance guy ( 45 Years old ) that was hired because he recently attained such a degree, . . and a 4.0 GPA. While he is a bright enough guy, he could not figure out a contactor ( relay ) on a drive motor because he never saw that type before. Yes, the contactor was made in the mid 60's but there is a diagram on the cover. 3 power wires in / 3 wires to the motor, 2 for a coil and 2 for auxiliary contacts to seal the contactor in when you push the start button.

[okyoureabeast]

Originally Posted by jt20

Well, well, well..... look at what the overzealous, hyperbolic, anti-establishment, aberrant, whimsical cat dragged in.

Missed you too hooligan!

[renaissanceman]

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

It doesn't get much brighter on the useful college degree end of things either. A few years ago we hired 2 early / mid career electrical engineers that didn't know what a diode was or how it works, . .or why it is placed across a relay coil when using DC. Granted, electrical engineering is a very broad field but one of these guys previous jobs was drawing up power supplies. . . .

A very early career electrical engineer we hired has very good practical skills, however he said that comes from working on various projects at home as college taught him little.

I have a bachelors and a master's in Mechanical Engineering, and most of my peers didn't know the difference between a a phillips and standard screwdriver. I was raised on a farm, and taught how to weld, wire, solder and generally fix things by my grandfather (8th grade education who lived through the depression) and my father (high school education, self taught tinkerer).

I also learned some practical skills during my undergraduate studies, like how to machine parts and build electronics, but I went to Fresno State (an Agricultural land grant school) and sought out such opportunities by making friends with the tech who ran the shop and learning the skills of my own choice on my own time, using resources available at the university. Most engineers, however, are hopeless outside of theory.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

There are few reasons not many people know how to fix things:

Stuff just doesn't break that often these days.

For the most part, stuff is way less expensive than in days gone by so it tends not to get fixed as labor outstrips the cost of a new one. Anyone have their umbrella fixed lately? How about shoe repair? Run a good old days price through this to equalize US dollars. http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Working hands on is considered low class, it's something that you do because you were too stupid to do anything else. ( I don't subscribe to that line of thought. )

At least in the US, the trend is to push kids into college degrees even if the skills they attain are mostly useless. Sports marketing , Fashion marketing , Art , Music are a few of the degrees floating around the factory floor at the company I work for. The work they are doing only requires the ability to read a ruler, dial caliper and very basic blue print reading, and that's only so they can verify the machine is still making a good part. These kids are also saddled with debt ( Like $ 40 K + ) that will take years to pay off with the jobs they have or are likely to get in the future.

It doesn't get much brighter on the useful college degree end of things either. A few years ago we hired 2 early / mid career electrical engineers that didn't know what a diode was or how it works, . .or why it is placed across a relay coil when using DC. Granted, electrical engineering is a very broad field but one of these guys previous jobs was drawing up power supplies. . . .

A very early career electrical engineer we hired has very good practical skills, however he said that comes from working on various projects at home as college taught him little.

Even a 2 year electrical engineering / electro-mechanical technology degree isn't of much help. We have a maintenance guy ( 45 Years old ) that was hired because he recently attained such a degree, . . and a 4.0 GPA. While he is a bright enough guy, he could not figure out a contactor ( relay ) on a drive motor because he never saw that type before. Yes, the contactor was made in the mid 60's but there is a diagram on the cover. 3 power wires in / 3 wires to the motor, 2 for a coil and 2 for auxiliary contacts to seal the contactor in when you push the start button.

I think stuff breaks as often as it used to - stuff doesn't get repaired and ends up in the land fill because it has been designed not to be fixed and in the first world labour rates are more expensive than simple replacement.

The attitude of modular replacement is endemic. The biggest problem is that it removes the need for thinking: just swap it out and try a new bit to see if that solves the problem (it all started with CIS!)

As for education - well - these days it is all about exams and performance tables. Students don't get given the time to fiddle and learn be it in the practical or theoretical sense. In university it is often said you start leaving when you leave!

[rasper]

In university it is often said you start leaving when you leave!

It's not a new thing. I went to college in 1961 - 1964. I learned far more in high school than I did in college. And I went to a good college. But back then, high schools, at least in Virginia, were top quality. We had real teachers. And if you didn't pass, you failed. period.

[Sev]

Originally Posted by dude99

Fuel economy has a lot to do with it. The prices on the diesels have been falling along with fuel prices in my area. That, and as you also mentioned, most of the local wreckers around me have closed up shop with the low scrap prices. So there is virtually no used parts market are any more, making the prospect of keeping a 20 year old diesel on the road a bitterly expensive one....

Dude, are you serious? You're clearly going through a case of 'dude, where's my car ' at the junkyard. I agree that w123, w116 and w126 diesels, even here in SoCal, are starting to get more and more scarce at junkyards. But with eBay being what it is, it actually doesn't cost *that* much more for a used car part online than it does at the junkyard, especially when you factor in how much time you spend looking for parts, the cost of fuel, etc. That being said, to me, my usage of my 300d turbo diesel is inversely proportional to fuel prices. When diesel gets 10-20 cents per gallon cheaper than gas, I switch my insurance from my 300e to my 300d. This usually occurs around spring to summer when gas prices increase. The reason people aren't on diesel discussion is likely because of the suppressed price of a barrel of oil making gas prices cheaper the last year+

[Stretch]

Oh I meant learning - not leaving - I guess the point bridged the gap...

[moon161]

Wow, I could sorta figure out the diode and I'm not a sparky. (ME/CAD jockey)

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

There are few reasons not many people know how to fix things:

Stuff just doesn't break that often these days.

For the most part, stuff is way less expensive than in days gone by so it tends not to get fixed as labor outstrips the cost of a new one. Anyone have their umbrella fixed lately? How about shoe repair? Run a good old days price through this to equalize US dollars. http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Working hands on is considered low class, it's something that you do because you were too stupid to do anything else. ( I don't subscribe to that line of thought. )

At least in the US, the trend is to push kids into college degrees even if the skills they attain are mostly useless. Sports marketing , Fashion marketing , Art , Music are a few of the degrees floating around the factory floor at the company I work for. The work they are doing only requires the ability to read a ruler, dial caliper and very basic blue print reading, and that's only so they can verify the machine is still making a good part. These kids are also saddled with debt ( Like $ 40 K + ) that will take years to pay off with the jobs they have or are likely to get in the future.

It doesn't get much brighter on the useful college degree end of things either. A few years ago we hired 2 early / mid career electrical engineers that didn't know what a diode was or how it works, . .or why it is placed across a relay coil when using DC. Granted, electrical engineering is a very broad field but one of these guys previous jobs was drawing up power supplies. . . .

A very early career electrical engineer we hired has very good practical skills, however he said that comes from working on various projects at home as college taught him little.

Even a 2 year electrical engineering / electro-mechanical technology degree isn't of much help. We have a maintenance guy ( 45 Years old ) that was hired because he recently attained such a degree, . . and a 4.0 GPA. While he is a bright enough guy, he could not figure out a contactor ( relay ) on a drive motor because he never saw that type before. Yes, the contactor was made in the mid 60's but there is a diagram on the cover. 3 power wires in / 3 wires to the motor, 2 for a coil and 2 for auxiliary contacts to seal the contactor in when you push the start button.