(617 fuel/lift pump not delivering enough fuel click for update)

Good morning friends,

So i am finished up putting together my build - '80 240d manual w a 617.951.

On the first test drive it was definitely not accelerating correctly, and was gutless in general. Figured it wasnt getting enough fuel.

My friend who is helping me out suggested putting in a different fuel pump to see the difference. He put on his spare 4psi Holley Mighty Mite (he uses on his '61 220s to help start it up if the carbs' gas evaporated over a couple days) and unplugged the stock one. There was an immediate and drastic improvement.

So now I know my fuel pump is funky, i have a couple options.

a) take the fuel pump off, put on my spare fuel pump that i pulled off a different 617 (the engine had ****ed up bearings and a big rod knock but i saved the IP). I'm curious if its a simple bolt on procedure or if there are things i need to be careful of? I guess I'd need a new gasket. Anything else?

B) use an electric pump. My friend has another spare pump he pulled from his old '88 6 series. I dont know much about this pump but im looking for information currently. Anyone know if its a decent pump for the job?

C) repair my current pump? No idea

If not which electric pump would be best for the 617?


Thanks fir the insight guys, cheers!

Sent from my LGLS996 using Tapatalk

You could swap in the other Lift Pump (fuel pump) from the junk 617 or rebuild
your present pump.

Here is a link to the lift Pump repair kit.

OM617.951 and .952 Lift pump Repair kit W126.120 300SD W123.133 300D

And

Rebuild those lift pumps! OM616 OM617


I replaced these valves in the 240 pump and did make a difference for me.

Nice looking 123, I have a 78 parts car that color, I used a wax/cleaner on part of it and it really brings out the shine.

Make sure the rods are adjusted to the correct length on the linkages, so you get full fuel.

Make sure the in tank fuel screen is clean also

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Thanks for the links and the kind words! We did check the tank strainer and rear rubber fuel lines they were all good. I will look at the throttle linkages though good idea.

Cheers

Sent from my LGLS996 using Tapatalk

The throttle linkage rods need to be specific lengths and where the linkages pivot on the Fire Wall (Bell Crank) is likely to be entirely different then the one that would have been their on the turboed Car.

I don't know if that makes a difference or not. You can tell buy looking up the parts from both vehicles and comparing them.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Most older electric fuel pumps intended for carborated engines only produce about 4-6 pounds pressure. This is too low for the 616 and 617 engines. The original fuel pump is easy to recondition in most cases. Pretty cheap to do as well.

Electric pumps for fuel injected gas engines far too much pressure, Your car will probably run best when everything is done to run in the 17-19 pound pressure area in the base of the injection pump.

This was my thought. If the OP's engine runs better with 4psi, it'll do even better when it gets the proper pressure.

An EFI pump should do fine on these, the check valve / FPR will just vent any extra pressure. Make sure you've stretched the FPR spring properly or get one of the upgrades.

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617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap

If your Fuel Perssure Relief/Over Flow Valve is one that can be taken apart you can take it apart and stretch the Spring till it has a free length of 27mm.

The Fuel Perssure Relief/Over Flow Valve controls the pressure of the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump when the pump is working as it should.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Electric fuel pumps are far more reliable now than in the oId Days. I can think of many reasons to stay with the original mechanical pump though.

Also if I were to bypass the original pump. I would remove the constant pressure spring and piston. When not processing fuel The piston will be driven from one extreme of movement to the other until it perhaps seizes up in the bore. The lubrication for that piston is the fuel in process. Normally it does not have to move much I suspect in comparison when it is processing fuel.

Last but not least perhaps ninety percent of them or better will respond to a cheap renewal kit. The valves are usually the issue and replacements come in the kit. The exception might be if the fuel used was recycled vegetable oil.

I will add that for those rebuilding the 240d lift pumps. If you can get the pressure spring out of an old turbo 617 lift pump. It to me is a sensible upgrade. This slight modification may even be beneficial to the non turbo 617s as well. I am not sure though but think they might also put out less pressure than the turbo lift pumps by design.

These pumps also in my opinion fail very slowly over time usually. There are simple tests to establish if they are still providing proper pressure and in a general tuneup should be perhaps checked.

When we aquire an old example of these cars to me it is important to check out the fuel system even if it is still running decently. Best of all this is very cheap to do yourself and not really complicated.

A breakdown on the road can e very expensive and frustrating as a result of not considering it. Remember that now I am just an old guy perhaps even around the bend as well.

I am driven by the thought that nobody has produced a car so simple for a very long time now. Plus an average individual can handle most of the repairs and maintenance. Plus with all the support from the members is also a major factor to consider.

The original lift pumps were a very clever very long lasting reliable design. The pre filter is there in my opinion to prevent large particle contamination of the valve seats in the lift pump from dirt in the fuel. The valves also serve as check valves to prevent fuel draining back down in the fuel system with the car sitting around.

For example my diesels in decent temperatures start almost instantly the next morning. So I know at least one of those two valves is sealing well. So if you do go electric pump remember to incorporate a check valve. That's if the electric pump does not have one. You do not want to pump a shot of air through the system at startup if the system back leaks overnight.

Many people probably do not like the length of some of my posts. I am just too simple minded to condense them.

I agree 100%. I installed the upgraded spring from Greazzer and my engine runs better, smoother. I can pull hills in 5th gear that I previously had to drop to 4th for. Makes sense, if there was insufficient pressure to completely fill the elements before, then more pressure to fill the elements = more fuel per stroke = more power.

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617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap

Berry, I love reading your long posts. They are always full of common sense.
You are right, these lift/feed pumps are a simple design. When I got my rebuild kit
and saw what was in it, Iam thinking there has to be more to it than that.
And many of these pumps have lasted 300K miles or more w/o a rebuild.

Don`t know if it was the kit or the pump I used of a 617.95 engine, but it really made a difference in the 240D.
Don`t remember the exact mileage, but at least 375K miles or so on the 240.

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

So I went ahead and just swapped out the pump for one I had on a spare IP (the car came with a roached 617 but i kept the IP). It definitely drives better but my friend still thinks it isn't getting appropriate power.

in my picture you see the air filter setup the car came with. The crankcase vent tube is just chilling there... for the moment I'm covering it with aluminum foil just so dirt doesnt get in there but still allows some ventilation. I'm going to swap out this air filter, my friend has one from his old 6 series that looks like it would fit nicely, and won't suck up hot air near the turbo. I'll prob take out the crankcase vent tube and put a line directly from the top of the oil pan to the front of the turbo.

#2: this engine is from a 300sd, and the turbo has something attached to the front/top that is leaking oil. there is oil splattered around it as well like it was spit out at high pressure. It also has a tube just sticking out, unconnected.. I don't know what this thing does but is it possibly stopping my turbo from working?

I also have a very rough/shaky idle when the engine is cold. once it warms up it seems better. Any thoughts?

I'm also going to get around to adjusting the valves today Should I try taking off the alda?

i forgot to mention I need to buy new tires but I'm not sure what size to buy or where to buy them. I'm located in the SF Bay Area so I could drive to them and have them do it if you can recommend me a place!

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Blockage of the flow out of the Crankcase Vent Tube to the atomsphere can shut your Engine off. The reason for that is on the Vacuum Shutoff on the Fuel Injection Pump one side of the internal diaphragm is exposed to the crankcase pressure while the other is exposed to the vacuum when you shut the engine off.

That means crankcase pressue can push the shutoff into the shutoff position.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

The #1 tube is the oil drain for the airbox and doesn't actually have anything come back up out of it, so you can do with it what you will. (Everything vents through the valve cover.) If you follow it all the way down to the pan you'll find where it attaches next to the turbo drain line. Might be useful if you want to run a self-draining catch can. I would simply plug it for now, since it does lead directly to the engine's oil supply. Definitely do not run the valve cover vent directly into it.

The #2 contraption is the ARV, which is part of the EGR system. If your EGR is non-functional then you can take the cover of the ARV off and shim it so it won't open. Oil coming out is probably because of oil from the valve cover vent. A catch can would help with that.

-Rog

You might be able to install a 1985 CA air filter in the spot where yours sits. Since in CA, you can find them in the junkyard. I did so in my 1984 300D. I posted details w/ photos and Wix PN for 2 filters you can stack, instead of the very expensive "correct" filter element.

The tube in your hand appears to be the oil drain for the factory air cleaner (from "oil separator"). It runs to a stub on the upper oil pan, next to the turbo drain tube. 1985 CA engines don't have that, so yours is a 1982-84 (or rare earlier turbo) or 85 federal. I ran a tube from the 85 CA rubber tee separator on the PCV tube to that drain (instead of into the turbo, as 85 CA did).

If the oil leak/spray is from just in front of your left index finger (2nd photo), that is the oil supply to the turbo and is at full pressure, I think. The gasket is cheap and easy access, unlike the fun you get in changing the lower oil gasket.

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1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans

Note that my answers above are regarding this picture, I'm guessing the others missed it because it's pretty easy to see what's being talked about:



-Rog