Dont Roll your Coal in NJ - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

treetops · #1 09-05-2016, 11:43 AM

Saw this browsing my local news websites....may pertain to 'italian tune ups' as well. While its from last year IDK when it went into effect.

https://legiscan.com/NJ/bill/S2418/2014

DrLou · #2 09-05-2016, 12:06 PM

As a New Jerseyan, an Italian, and a driver of a 300 SD which frequently needs tuneups, even I had to look this one up!

I'll have to be careful not to disable any of the 'computer controls' (!!) on my '83!

Is this what our legislators must spend their time on?

Thanks for this! This was a particularly fun post... !

sixto · #3 09-05-2016, 12:10 PM

That would encompass ACC and cruise control on an '83 SD, right?

Sixto
83 300SD

w123fanman · #4 09-05-2016, 12:19 PM

Meant to target the idiots in diesel trucks who have tuned their engines to run poorly so they can roll coal on Prius drivers and anyone else who makes them irate.

I would think if you are driving an old diesel and get cited for this, you might want to look into fixing your injection system. I hope they pass something like this in GA to get the buses at Georgia Tech to be fixed up or replaced, they aren't incredibly old but every single one of them has plumes of smoke coming out the back because the company who is contracted to do our parking & transportation services only cares about making the most amount of profit instead of emissions, among other things.

junqueyardjim · #5 09-05-2016, 12:28 PM

I see quite a little of this in the suburbs of Indianapolis. Pickup trucks, mostly Dodge Cummins with big dual 4" stacks that on accelerating do put out a tremendous volume of very heavy smoke. It is very nasty stuff in the air and any way they can stop it is OK with me

DrLou · #6 09-05-2016, 12:37 PM

All kidding aside, I couldn't agree with all this more. As you all know, we have some of the most-traversed highways in the country. And a lot of that traffic is coming from long-haul trucks.

FWIW, I'm trying to do my part! The old girl has 400+k miles on her, and her smoke 'output' is virtually imperceptible.

Again: Greazzer's work on the injectors has helped. (Shameless plug.)

MTUpower · #7 09-05-2016, 12:39 PM

I don't think many here understand that a engine which has the ability to "roll coal" is not a poorly running engine. It's an engine that has the ability to inject far more fuel at a low RPM than the engine can burn. At higher RPM the turbo boost is high enough that the fuel is burned and no "coal" is emitted. If you've ever watched a tractor pull you'd understand. The ability to inject large amounts of fuel has a direct relationship to higher total HP. It's akin to showing other modified diesel owners that your engine is powerful.

Older (or even newer) diesel which consistently smoke while under load or in between gears are not "rolling coal"; they are running poorly. The usually need more air by either standard maintenance (air filter change) or some other upkeep. Excess smoking in a diesel engine is most of the time directly related to fuel/air ratios; it's either too much fuel or not enough air.

leathermang · #8 09-05-2016, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

I don't think many here understand that a engine which has the ability to "roll coal" is not a poorly running engine. It's an engine that has the ability to inject far more fuel at a low RPM than the engine can burn. At higher RPM the turbo boost is high enough that the fuel is burned and no "coal" is emitted. If you've ever watched a tractor pull you'd understand. The ability to inject large amounts of fuel has a direct relationship to higher total HP. It's akin to showing other modified diesel owners that your engine is powerful.

Older (or even newer) diesel which consistently smoke while under load or in between gears are not "rolling coal"; they are running poorly. The usually need more air by either standard maintenance (air filter change) or some other upkeep. Excess smoking in a diesel engine is most of the time directly related to fuel/air ratios; it's either too much fuel or not enough air.

It seems like you have said two things which are opposites.
I think that your statement '''The ability to inject large amounts of fuel has a direct relationship to higher total HP. ''' is not correct... that diesels require an excess of air to produce more power... perhaps the smoking is just for the visual effect to please the audience ....

sixto · #9 09-05-2016, 12:57 PM

This might be opposite sides of a coin but you have to provide more fuel when significantly enhancing the breathing of an engine. You're not going to get 200 HP out of a 617 with a factory spec IP.

Sixto
83 300SD

leathermang · #10 09-05-2016, 01:19 PM

What he described about the smoke being unburned fuel was true... thus not contributing to power... diesel theory requires excess oxygen being available..

sixto · #11 09-05-2016, 01:33 PM

A GM 6.5 forum says exhaust smoke is bad for the engine. Aside from oil contamination and fouling the soot trap (which most 6.5s no longer have

) how does excess fuel harm the engine?

Sixto
83 300SD

leathermang · #12 09-05-2016, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

A GM 6.5 forum says exhaust smoke is bad for the engine. Aside from oil contamination and fouling the soot trap (which most 6.5s no longer have

) how does excess fuel harm the engine?

Sixto
83 300SD

I don't see where anyone said it harmed the engine other than those things you listed... but only that excess fuel to the point of smoking does not produce more power..

Junkman · #13 09-05-2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junqueyardjim

I see quite a little of this in the suburbs of Indianapolis. Pickup trucks, mostly Dodge Cummins with big dual 4" stacks that on accelerating do put out a tremendous volume of very heavy smoke. It is very nasty stuff in the air and any way they can stop it is OK with me

Dodge went to computer controlled injection pumps with the 24 valve engine in 1998.5. There are multiple tuners that have the ability to change timing and fueling with the push of a button. The tuners can be used to increase fuel mileage, towing characteristics aod they can be made to spew extra particulates.

Earlier Cummins could have similar results by changing fuel plates and internal injection pump springs. They could not be changed on the fly.

I don't know when electronic tuners became available for Ford and Chevy but they are available now.

I ride bicycles. There is a guy with a Cummins (we tolerate the truck and buy the vehicle for the engine) that likes to roll coal when he passes us. We run into the dip wad a few times per year. I'd like to meet him on the street and discuss his poor manners. I'm sure that my companion could make him see the error of his ways.

HuskyMan · #14 09-05-2016, 02:17 PM

It's a principal I've stumbled upon; get rid of one dip wad and ten more will take their place! It's a society of never ending dip wads! We might as well get used to the sad reality that there are millions of dip wads just looking to ruin our day........

Dan Stokes · #15 09-05-2016, 02:38 PM

A couple of points:

1) I know what I'm talking about. I have many dyno hours testing a variety of Diesels doing emissions work for the Federal EPA. Further, I have built and operate one of the fastest OM617's in the country (I do land speed racing).

2) Rolling coal doesn't do much good. If my race truck is rolling coal it means that I don't have enough air to support the output of my SuperPump. Right now I'm turbo limited - more turbo is my next step. I do get a little smoke as the turbo spools up but no detectable smoke once I have boost.

3) Particulate Matter (PM) is not especially harmful, being primarily just carbon. However, it carries with it, and is proportional to, "non-particulate bound" organics which are carcinogenic. The actual PM just falls on the ground (eventually) but the organics are more or less an aerosol and stay suspended in the air for a while. The reason for PM control, besides the fact that the public gripes about it, is to control the organics which is well worth doing.

4) The NJ law as written is unenforceable. It talks about the INTENT to roll coal. How do you prove someone's "intent". Maybe your fuel system has just suddenly gone horribly haywire. Actually, I'd guess this law is a follow-on to the Federal law cracking down on tuner companies selling tuners and/or equipment meant to deliberately bypass the Federal emissions control systems with the result (among other things) of causing coal to roll. The result of this aftermarket equipment is pretty easy to spot and therefore simple for the police to ticket though, given the poor wording of the law, may be hard to prosecute at the state level though the Federal statute might be applied (though it's intended to go after companies).

Dan