I currently own a 1980 240D manual 4 speed with close to 400K on it and for some time I've had a leaky rear main seal. It seems to be getting worse now and the clutch has also begun to slip. I think this slippage is due to the clutch being soaked with oil. What are my options in replacing the rear main seal? Can I do it by dropping the tranny or do I need to pull the engine? How involved is clutch replacement on these cars?

Thanks!

John M.

mccallum_john,

I live with the leakage, and have taken to parking with the nose downhill, and filling the crankase with oil to the midway mark on the dipstick, and no further. It reduced the leakage significantly, and I only get a little clutch chatter (I do not get any slipping, just chatter at start up from a stop) in the summer.

Changing the seal means removing the engine and dropping the crankshaft. Too much work if there is nothing else to work on in there. I would think seriously before deciding to invest that much money on a car that is as old as mine - 280,000 miles is a lot from a car and this one owes me nothing at this point.

So, I will stretch the car's life as long as I can without making any big investments. Presently mine is not a big leaker, just messy when you work on the engine from below.The deliberate parking with the nose aimed downhill as well as avoiding filling the engine with oil over half way between the marks on the dipstick seem to have reduced the leak rate quite a bit which is a relief since I use Delvac 1 in the car at about $18 per gallon.

Good Luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

to replace the rear main seal on the 240/300D the engine has to come out. I think the Haynes manual has a pretty good picture of the rear seal. It looks like what I call "pump packing".
With that many miles and if you decide to repair it you should go ahead and rebuild the engine. I spent around $800 (approximately $400 for pistons) in a recent 240D rebuild doing everything but the machine shop work myself. Job came out good.

__________________
Jim

OK,,, So this can not be done by pulling and dropping the Transmission ?

If it is like pump packing... rather than a circular seal... then what is the possibility of using one of those " in car " replacement set of tools...

I have done this on American cars which had both the rope type packing and two piece 'normal' rubber seals...It seemed rinky dink to me at the time.... but it worked perfectly... It was not an unusual procedure with Old American Cars... or with Tractors... it all depends on the way the engine was designed..

The tools consist of a 6 inch screw with a finger loop on the back end, a flexible pusher which will not scratch the crank..... these are used , pulling and pushing at the same time that the crank is turned in the same direction by someone with a ratchet on the front of the engine... I think that KandD tools sold the kit....

However, unless the trans can be dropped and the clutch replaced in situ then you still have an oil soaked clutch...Greg

short time owner of 1980 240d 4 speed ( three days ! )

MCCallum_John and JimSmith : YOUR CARS ARE TRASH... 280k/400k ? and you still have them littering the neighborhood ? They were underpowered anyway,, and No Respectable Mercedes should make the driver shift the car themselves... What are you thinking ? I have been thinking about this a long time ( 6 minutes ) and since I am a Sensitive Guy ( See credentials below )... I am offering to buy your 240's just to help your relations with your neighbors...and You should not have to have nightmares about rear seals leaking and the incredible cost of replacing them.... email me to arrange pickup...Greg


Recent graduate of Michael R School of Sensitive Internet posting.

Greg,

I might take you up on that offer in a few years once the car starts to show some sign of dissatisfaction with my ownership. Right now I am more concerned with how much longer the car will last than how many drops of oil I leave here and there, and there and there....

I just checked the manual for my 1975 model, and the rear seal is a two piece chunk of "valve packing" about 3/8" square. Not much of it sticks out of the groove it sits in (radially inward, toward the crankshaft), and you leave a small length sticking out of both the oil pan and the crankcase at the parting line (circumferentially protruding), 0.6 mm per the manual. Apparently when the crank is back in and all is bolted up the little bit protruding at the parting line of the crankcase and oil pan are enough to preload the packing to make it seal. If there was a way to do this "in-situ" it would be worth the attempt. You can get to the clutch by dropping the driveshaft and transmission, so you can get access. Seems to me there should be a way to machine off the outer face of the groove and make something that bolts back on so you can stuff a single piece of pre-cut packing ring material in there and capture it. Too bad for a few of us holding on to these old beasts that MB thought the packing material would last forever and it didn't.

If you work out a solution, let me know. Maybe I will drive the old beast down to Texas and let you try it out on the car - LOL.

Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Oil soaked clutches.My Moto Guzzi had that problem,There was an acess place on the bell housing.I injected a lot of mineral spirits cranked engine over Clutch cleaned enough to not slip for some weeks.Check and see if you have an easy access to the inside of the bell housing.Good luck Michael.

JimSmith, Since I will probably be pulling my engine I will take special note of that rear seal... it is just a machine.. I have a Burke #4 mill and a small Atlas lathe... and welding equipment... don't know how to use any of it.. LOL.. but might come up with something.. it sounds like a worthy project... except I might be able to pick up more bargain manual 240's if I DON'T design a fix... LOL...Mine has really charmed me...I am wondering about Diesel Power's sanity for selling it to me....

If I can design and manufacture an in situ fix for your machine,,, and Johns, will you drive down for the Spring Texas Shindig ? We wouod love to see you here.... Greg

Greg,

Got to agree these cars are really something special, great engineering and great machinists and craftsmen carrying out the design in a thoroughly integrated fashion. The appreciation you develop for them is something that grows in you - you recognize the qualities without being aware of any one feature that holds your interest. It is the sum of all that good work that is most apparent when you are behind the wheel for a long trip. Or in another car where all the right goodies are in the car, but nothing is really integrated to make it more than a bunch of parts thrown together.

Hey, I would love a road trip to Texas, as I not only do some business there, but my wife's brother and his family live somewhere near Midland and we have never been there. Keep me posted on your "in-situ" rear seal repair development. A trip like that in my old 240D will require some planning, like what to let my daughter drive while I take her car (she drives it now).

When she got the car by the way, she thought it was an old used up heap. Well, after driving it for nearly four years she is completely under its spell. She looks for low mileage '83's with manual transmissions and joined the European Auto Club at school. Got a free rear bumper from someone parting out an old car there to replace the original one that had the mounting clips cast into the aluminum bumper dissolve on the side with the exhaust pipe. She takes great pride in letting the boys in the club know what a high mileage car really is, and how well everything in the car still works. Especially that Diesel engine which delivers high 20's mpg in a town with nothing but steep hills. Which help selecting the parking places and orientations to minimize rear seal leakage. Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

GEE , JIM, I was just going to go for " I can get both my hands in the engine compartment to work on it " when you went philosophical on me... Greg

Guys,

Several years ago I put together a 240D with a 300D engine out of a G-wagen and wanted the rear seal replaced before I installed the engine. The mechanic at who's shop I was assemblying the car insisted that I only needed to install a new lower portion of the seal, which we did. Needless to say, I was apprehensive and expected the thing to leak. By the way the engine had 150,000 at that point. Well, the lower seal worked and still works after about another 60,000 miles.

I've another 300TD that has a leaky seal and we intend to put a five speed in it, so we're going to see if we can lower the pan at the rear by taking out all the bolts and with the flywheek removed, see if we can replace just the lower portion of the seal. If anybody manages to try this fix before I get to that point, post the results here.

Ben

Ridge, Tcane and BillTX are on there way here right now to test Sausage and Brazosberry cobbler, and your swapping feats are the main topic on the list of discussion points... I have this 240 with unknown oil usage cause,,, and a 110k 300 td wagon engine sitting on the ground up front... which always gives pause for thought about creating something hybrid.... will let you know how lunch goes....

Is the transmission relocated during this swap or are the bell housings where the extra piston length is made up ? If so, how far is it moved... and did you measure the actual amount that needs to be removed from the driveshaft ? This is the four speed so it may be different from what you did...

How hard was getting the shifting right... this one is sweet and would hate to mess that feel up..

any other comments before they get here ?
thanks, Greg

learhermange,wecome to my sensitive E mail club.Michael Rybikowsky.A name with a statement.

I just love how this website puts people together like this...

Let us know what you come up with.

It's kind of like watching the show Shadetree Mechanic on cable (TNN), except I have to read it on the monitor instead of watching it on T.V.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Leathermang,

Swap that turbo engine into the 240D, today!!!! All you'll need to cut is the three shift linkages from under the car. Chop out exactly a four inch section from each link and reweld. If you can't find the correct length drivehsaft you'll need to cut that and rebalance it but that's no big thing. I'll root around and find the exact length that the driveshaft needs to be and send it along later. You'll need to find a 300D manual flywheel which can be difficult since there weren't many brought into the country. But! It turns out that the 300d manual flywheel from the previous series MBZ is the same and they are much easier to find. One yard out here has five. Be careful to note that the flywheek and crank are both marked with balance marks, so line them up when bolting together.

What year is the 240D? You'll love the rake that the car has once the heavier engine is stuck in it.

Just put a turbo boost gage on my son's car. Made a nice little spacer that sits under the egr valve and taped it for the boost fitting. The boost gage came from J.C. Whiney catalog for $16.00.
My son wanted it in the a/c outlet fitting right next to the drive, so that's where it ended up. Looks great and he still gets a little air movement around it.

If you guys want to ask more questions, call me on your nickle at 510-471-5770.

Ben