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  #16  
Old 12-16-2016, 10:54 AM
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When I drove my car in the cold, I left it plugged into a timer that turned on the power to the heater 6hours before I would leave for work. The engine was not hot, but warm, ... much warmer than it would be sitting overnight in the summer.

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  #17  
Old 12-17-2016, 12:46 PM
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My experience parallels my northern neighbor. During zero F weather the stock MB block heater is good enough to keep the Benz engine OK if the car is inside the garage. Outside with the nose into the wind, it won't keep up. It simply does not generate enough heat. The last one I put an amp clamp tester on the feed barely pulled more than 4.5 amps. (About 500 watts.) It doesn't circulate the coolant, so at best you have 2 cylinders with a warm spot. The Kats, Hot Shot and other circulating heaters can be found with 1500 watt (& larger) heating elements and they push the heated water through the block.

I'd wish you good luck on the weekend's game, but your guys won't need it. It's about 20F right now, but it's going down. The way our guys have been playing I think Soldier Field will be empty but for Packer fans. Stay warm.
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2016, 02:53 PM
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Lukewarm is about all you can hope for from the factory heater. 400w and a huge chunk of iron and low temps and moving air, that's doing pretty good.

Keep in mind the factory heater is a starting aid, not a comfort item. It's not supposed to heat the engine to operating temp, it's not supposed heat the cabin. It's meant to heat the engine enough to start, and the engine does not need to be warm to the touch for that. For that, it excels, and you can help with blankets over the hood, cardboard or whatever you have handy to block drafts, etc.
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  #19  
Old 12-18-2016, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OM617YOTA View Post
Lukewarm is about all you can hope for from the factory heater. 400w and a huge chunk of iron and low temps and moving air, that's doing pretty good.

Keep in mind the factory heater is a starting aid, not a comfort item. It's not supposed to heat the engine to operating temp, it's not supposed heat the cabin. It's meant to heat the engine enough to start, and the engine does not need to be warm to the touch for that. For that, it excels, and you can help with blankets over the hood, cardboard or whatever you have handy to block drafts, etc.
The factory installed block heater is absolutley useless unless you live in death valley Ca. in the middle of summer with the car parked in a heated garage!
So stupid to have such a weak engine heater in a diesel engine as a starting aid. An open flame from a cigarette lighter held under the oil pan for two minutes would produce more heat!
The Kat's tank type heater is awesome, it cycles on and off between 130 and 170 degrees. The engine will start right up in sub zero weather with the touch of the key as if it had new glow plugs on a hot summer day!
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:53 PM
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The 603 will start quickly without a block heater below 10F, I've done it for decades. Below zero (F) it will need to crank, less than 1revolution, and then it will puff and run rough. If yours doesn't, you need more than a block heater you're putting lipstick on a pig.

The block heater helps the engine start more smoothly, and at seriously cold temperatures (below what I've ever seen in mid-Michigan) it might become a necessity, but most cars sold in my area of Michigan never even had cords, ... because they started fine down to and below 0F.

Fix the problem, not the symptom.
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  #21  
Old 12-22-2016, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by babymog View Post
The 603 will start quickly without a block heater below 10F, I've done it for decades. Below zero (F) it will need to crank, less than 1revolution, and then it will puff and run rough. If yours doesn't, you need more than a block heater you're putting lipstick on a pig.

The block heater helps the engine start more smoothly, and at seriously cold temperatures (below what I've ever seen in mid-Michigan) it might become a necessity, but most cars sold in my area of Michigan never even had cords, ... because they started fine down to and below 0F.

Fix the problem, not the symptom.
Three of the glow plugs are broken off. My only option is to use heat to start the engine. The car is not worth the high cost to have the glow plugs removed and replaced.
The other night temps were 25 below zero, plugged in the "Kat's" heater overnight and the next morning car started right up.
Lipstick worked pretty good on this old pig.
Problem solved!
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  #22  
Old 12-23-2016, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Foxtrot View Post
My experience parallels my northern neighbor. During zero F weather the stock MB block heater is good enough to keep the Benz engine OK if the car is inside the garage. Outside with the nose into the wind, it won't keep up. It simply does not generate enough heat. The last one I put an amp clamp tester on the feed barely pulled more than 4.5 amps. (About 500 watts.) It doesn't circulate the coolant, so at best you have 2 cylinders with a warm spot. The Kats, Hot Shot and other circulating heaters can be found with 1500 watt (& larger) heating elements and they push the heated water through the block.

I'd wish you good luck on the weekend's game, but your guys won't need it. It's about 20F right now, but it's going down. The way our guys have been playing I think Soldier Field will be empty but for Packer fans. Stay warm.
Thermal conduction and thermal siphon should circulate the Coolant heated by the Block Heater.
The only imposition would be the closed Thermostat. However, the Coolant in the Block and Cylinderhead when heated should rise up to the Cylinder head till the temp is the same throughout the coolant system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon
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  #23  
Old 12-23-2016, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packerfan View Post
The factory installed block heater is absolutley useless unless you live in death valley Ca. in the middle of summer with the car parked in a heated garage!
So stupid to have such a weak engine heater in a diesel engine as a starting aid. An open flame from a cigarette lighter held under the oil pan for two minutes would produce more heat!
The Kat's tank type heater is awesome, it cycles on and off between 130 and 170 degrees. The engine will start right up in sub zero weather with the touch of the key as if it had new glow plugs on a hot summer day!
I thought you were exaggerating by quite a bit with this. Then I saw:

Quote:
Originally Posted by packerfan View Post
Three of the glow plugs are broken off. My only option is to use heat to start the engine. The car is not worth the high cost to have the glow plugs removed and replaced.
The other night temps were 25 below zero, plugged in the "Kat's" heater overnight and the next morning car started right up.
Lipstick worked pretty good on this old pig.
Problem solved!
You have other issues, well beyond what the factory engine heater is designed for. This is no fault of the factory heater.
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  #24  
Old 12-23-2016, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OM617YOTA View Post
I thought you were exaggerating by quite a bit with this. Then I saw:



You have other issues, well beyond what the factory engine heater is designed for. This is no fault of the factory heater.
No exaggerating here, the factory engine heater is way too tiny (400 watt) for that big engine block in below zero weather. The "Kat's" heater I am talking about is 1500 watts and keeps the engine warm to 170 degrees no matter how cold and windy it is outside.
The only issue I have is that my glow plugs are broken and starting the engine in extreme cold is impossible without heating up the engine first.
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2016, 06:19 PM
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The engine pictured is an outdoor emergency standby power generator. Its located outside, in an unheated, un-insulated metal enclosure. It has to start first time, every time - no if, ands, or buts. No second chances. No glow plugs. no heated fuel, no heated air intake. It starts and achieves full power in six seconds. The engine is about three times the size of an OM617. The other day it was -14F and this thing made the 6 second start - no sweat. The block was 107F. It uses a block heater similar to the Kats unit that packerfan uses. That type of performance will not happen with a 400 watt freeze plug heater.
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  #26  
Old 12-24-2016, 07:21 PM
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I'm certainly not debating that a 1500w Kats heater will get the engine warmer than the 400w factory heater. My point is that the 617 doesn't need to be 170F or 107F to start, even just 30F is fine, and a significant improvement when it's 0F outside. This isn't an emergency standby generator that needs to go to full load immediately, and the factory block heater has been sized accordingly.

I do agree that cold start to full load in 6 seconds, the closer you can start to operating temp the better for the life of the engine. Would probably want an oil heating blanket, too.
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  #27  
Old 12-24-2016, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Foxtrot View Post
The engine pictured is an outdoor emergency standby power generator. Its located outside, in an unheated, un-insulated metal enclosure. It has to start first time, every time - no if, ands, or buts. No second chances. No glow plugs. no heated fuel, no heated air intake. It starts and achieves full power in six seconds. The engine is about three times the size of an OM617. The other day it was -14F and this thing made the 6 second start - no sweat. The block was 107F. It uses a block heater similar to the Kats unit that packerfan uses. That type of performance will not happen with a 400 watt freeze plug heater.
Thank You Charlie, I see you live in northern Illinois and you get it!
I think most of the guys commenting here live in much warmer climates than we do so it is difficult for them to understand.
Looking at the picture of your generator I can instantly see the heater and the blue water lines and I know exactly what it's purpose is.
My original question here was "how to plumb" the heater on my 1995 E300.

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