1999 E300 turbodiesel Pros/Cons - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

EDBSO · #46 03-05-2017, 07:21 PM

It took me over 2 years to find my 2006 CDI, it was well worth the wait (or as 45 would spell it weight)

I now have a bit over 68,000 miles on it and have loved every second of it.

There are good low mileage reasonably priced CDIs out there.

packerfan · #47 03-12-2017, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

Packerfan and all, agreed-X2. Being a W211 owner for just a short time, and a '99 E300 owner for a couple years, they both have their pros and cons as all have said. Just make it easy on yourself, and get one of each!

Seriously, when I had my E300, I could not have asked for a more enjoyable car to own and operate. Then I did a bunch of reading here about the CDI, and decided that this was my next step up. A friend has an '07 (Bluetec), and it is probably past my ability to maintain anything more than oil and filter changes, and therefore decided that a CDI would be the limit to my newest car owning experience. I have been able to do everything that needed repairing on this car myself (injector seals, transmission shudder, suspension components, oil and filter changes etc). Every day I drive it, and like it a little more. I know rust is a big consideration for you, and that may be the deciding factor for you between both cars, everything else being equil. Either one will be a huge step up in my opinion. I too had a '95 E300, and enjoyed it emensely till I got a '99. Up till the time I got my CDI, I did not consult the forum, or get any opinions on the reliability or quality of the W124, or W210, I just found one and bought it. I commend you for practicing due diligence in your search for a car. This is all great information for future buyers of both chassis models. Thanks, Rich

Well I finally got a chance to drive half way across the state today to check out the 1999 e300 that is for sale, asking price $6900.
The guy opened the garage door and there it was covered with blankets. he removed the blankets and I was pretty impressed, the car looked beautiful.
I asked him to start the engine and he reminded me that a glow plug or two is bad so it may start a little hard and it has been parked for the past four months because he never drives it during the winter. he turned the key on and off several times to let the glow plugs cycle then cranked the engine for a very long time while pumping the accelerator pedal. (not sure why he was doing that!)
After four attempts of long cranking the engine started and ran very rough for about 5 minutes or so then it smoothed out. The overhead garage door was open but it still filled the entire building with blue smoke!
I asked him if I could drive it and he said I couldn't because he did not have insurance on it. he did agree to driving it down his 1/4 mile long driveway with me in the passenger seat and I was impressed with the power.
My main reason for looking at this over priced car was to get a feel of what difference a turbo makes compared to my non turbo 1995 e300.
We sat in the car and talked for awhile and he said he bought the car 7 years ago and has done nothing to it other than oil changes but the guy he bought it from had tons of receipts from work that had been done, transmission work, shocks,brakes, and lots of other stuff he couldn't remember. I asked to see those receipts and he said he wasn't sure if he had them anymore.
I finally asked him what his bottom dollar would be on the car and he said if couldn't sell it for $6000 he would just keep it and continue driving it without changing the glow plugs because it starts just fine during the months that he drives it.
I am no expert but I can only imagine that glow plugs left in that engine for at least seven years and maybe more, may be so covered in carbon that they will never come out!
This car has 250k miles on it and is way over priced, or is it, there is a "AMG" emblem below the shifter, whatever that means?
After riding in a car with a turbo I can't wait to test drive a CDI.

jay_bob · #48 03-13-2017, 05:42 AM

Good choice to run away from that one!

ROLLGUY · #49 03-13-2017, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

If you were willing to come to CA, my friend has a wonderful '99 E300 with about 160K that has recently had much work done on it (cyl head rebuilt, new glow plugs, trans service, front brakes). It is in very nice condition, and zero rust. I am sure he would sell it for around 5 grand. Of course it is Smoke Silver (aren't they all?). He loves the car, but since he drove my CDI, he wants one.
The head was done because of a very slight coolant loss, and the trans had the conductor plate replaced from chasing a no shift issue. It turned out to be the shifter range selector switch. It shifts flawlessly now. Of course the fluid was changed with synthetic. New front rotors and pads too! PM if interested.......Rich

I talked with my friend Dave yesterday, and he is on the fast track to sell his car ('99 E300) and buy mine ('05 E320 CDI). He did an oil change yesterday with Mobil 1, and a few other maintenance items. If I was not in the hunt for a blue CDI (my original intent before finding the one I have now), I would think about making him a trade and drive the E300 for a while till I found the blue CDI that I can afford. Being an MB Diesel guy for a long time, I have had much personal experience with this car, and know that it is a good one. If I could find a buyer for him, that would make the both of us happy! If you are looking for one other than Smoke Silver, this one is not for you. However, if the color is okay with you, I encourage you to check it out.....Rich

packerfan · #50 03-13-2017, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packerfan

Well I finally got a chance to drive half way across the state today to check out the 1999 e300 that is for sale, asking price $6900.
The guy opened the garage door and there it was covered with blankets. he removed the blankets and I was pretty impressed, the car looked beautiful.
I asked him to start the engine and he reminded me that a glow plug or two is bad so it may start a little hard and it has been parked for the past four months because he never drives it during the winter. he turned the key on and off several times to let the glow plugs cycle then cranked the engine for a very long time while pumping the accelerator pedal. (not sure why he was doing that!)
After four attempts of long cranking the engine started and ran very rough for about 5 minutes or so then it smoothed out. The overhead garage door was open but it still filled the entire building with blue smoke!
I asked him if I could drive it and he said I couldn't because he did not have insurance on it. he did agree to driving it down his 1/4 mile long driveway with me in the passenger seat and I was impressed with the power.
My main reason for looking at this over priced car was to get a feel of what difference a turbo makes compared to my non turbo 1995 e300.
We sat in the car and talked for awhile and he said he bought the car 7 years ago and has done nothing to it other than oil changes but the guy he bought it from had tons of receipts from work that had been done, transmission work, shocks,brakes, and lots of other stuff he couldn't remember. I asked to see those receipts and he said he wasn't sure if he had them anymore.
I finally asked him what his bottom dollar would be on the car and he said if couldn't sell it for $6000 he would just keep it and continue driving it without changing the glow plugs because it starts just fine during the months that he drives it.
I am no expert but I can only imagine that glow plugs left in that engine for at least seven years and maybe more, may be so covered in carbon that they will never come out!
This car has 250k miles on it and is way over priced, or is it, there is a "AMG" emblem below the shifter, whatever that means?
After riding in a car with a turbo I can't wait to test drive a CDI.

This story isn't over just yet!
The guys wife found all the service records from the previous owner dating from 2008 up to 2012 at the time it was sold to this guy. she scanned and emailed the service records to me.
I will tell you about a small fraction of the work that has been done:
new injector pump, new glow plugs, brake pads, rotors, ball joints, new radiator, four wheel alignment, front and rear wheel bearings, new AC compressor, new tail lights, new evaporator, new battery, new glow plug relay, several electrical relays gadgets and gizmo's.
The list goes on and on with a grand total of $23,182.52!
I'm not sure how to look at this, on the one hand it's good to know what has been done,the entire car has been rebuilt and on the other hand, if it cost's this much to maintain a 1999 e300, I don't want anything to do with it!

EDBSO · #51 03-13-2017, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packerfan

I am no expert but I can only imagine that glow plugs left in that engine for at least seven years and maybe more, may be so covered in carbon that they will never come out!

If I had to have the car I would insist on fresh glow plugs as part of the deal.

There are multiple DIY posts on Glow Plug replacement.

You will love the CDI

packerfan · #52 03-13-2017, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDBSO

If I had to have the car I would insist on fresh glow plugs as part of the deal.

There are multiple DIY posts on Glow Plug replacement.

You will love the CDI

I let the guy know several times about my glow plug concerns and he would not budge. said he wants to sell the car as is.
Time for me to skip this one and focus on a CDI.

dieseldiehard · #53 03-13-2017, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packerfan

This story isn't over just yet!
The guys wife found all the service records from the previous owner dating from 2008 up to 2012 at the time it was sold to this guy. she scanned and emailed the service records to me.
I will tell you about a small fraction of the work that has been done:
new injector pump, new glow plugs, brake pads, rotors, ball joints, new radiator, four wheel alignment, front and rear wheel bearings, new AC compressor, new tail lights, new evaporator, new battery, new glow plug relay, several electrical relays gadgets and gizmo's.
The list goes on and on with a grand total of $23,182.52!
I'm not sure how to look at this, on the one hand it's good to know what has been done,the entire car has been rebuilt and on the other hand, if it cost's this much to maintain a 1999 e300, I don't want anything to do with it!

HOLY BENZ RIPOFF!

Must have been servicing it at a dealer. Or a Indy who charged as much. Why replace the IP? And is the transmission shifting perfectly thats a huge ticket item, don't ask me how I know.

I also agree with needing to have new glow plugs included in a service before any sale. Thats the sleeper problem in these engines, I've seen fairly low mileage E300D's FS at giveaway prices because either a glow plug has been diagnosed as stuck or a shirtsleeve mechanic went at replacing a GP and busted it off in the head. This is a job that should be done as PM, not waiting for one to die, then driving the car a half a year until cold weather and it gets real hard to start then the owner decides to have the GP's replaced and finds the repair bill goes from $300 to $3000.
I am in the middle of a rebuild of my '99 w/ 604.962 engine, I got a stuck lifter at about 220K miles so I figured why R&R a few of them and have the rest go out later? I decided to buy all 24 (subject of another thread - ie OUCH!) THEN I got talked into adding a valve job as long as the cams were out. It turned out a couple of exhaust valves were pretty burned and so I feel better about doing the top end 100% now.

I still love the 210 and I have decided this is as modern as I will go on a Mercedes diesel, especially after reading whats been said about the V6 (M620?) bluetec. YMMV.
DDH

jake12tech · #54 03-13-2017, 11:57 PM

Not sure why you guys insist on the glow plugs being replaced before buying it. Not any owner is going to have anything fixed when there isn't a glow plug light on. Also, the only way you're going to have issues is if you're doing them on a diesel that has been loaded up with carbon (city driving) with very little italian tuneups or highway driving. If you do it on a warm motor and hit them with an impact and not using monster torque, you can dislodge any carbon that would cause it to snap. If it doesn't wanna come out, you tighten it with a ratchet and then hit it again to loosen it with the impact. They come right out. I only had one that took 4 hours to come out and I soaked it with PB blaster and then proceeded to use a 3/8 ratchet to break it.

There not as bad as you think. I think a lot of people who have scared everyone around here didn't have the experience with glow plugs to know what one feels like when its not going to come out and snap, or didn't warm the motor up. Or just plain didn't know anything and were too cheap to pay someone who did. I've done glow plugs 3 times on an MB and a 7.3 truck. Air tools or an impact gun are the way to go.

dieseldiehard · #55 03-14-2017, 12:23 PM

OK, and you are right about working on a still warm engine helps. metal expands when heated.
Experience is vital when removing one of the long glow plugs.
I used to occasionally visit a machine shop during off time, Ellsworth brothers in Mountain View, CA now closed. They did my 603 head. We worked together to make it meet factory spec.
Thats where I saw my first 606 head, what a thing of wonder with all the symmetry of the valves around the cylinders (I never thought I would own one of them someday).
They said the head was from local MB dealer, must not have had an experienced mechanic there, as one GP was broken off.

packerfan · #56 03-14-2017, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake12tech

Not sure why you guys insist on the glow plugs being replaced before buying it. Not any owner is going to have anything fixed when there isn't a glow plug light on. Also, the only way you're going to have issues is if you're doing them on a diesel that has been loaded up with carbon (city driving) with very little italian tuneups or highway driving. If you do it on a warm motor and hit them with an impact and not using monster torque, you can dislodge any carbon that would cause it to snap. If it doesn't wanna come out, you tighten it with a ratchet and then hit it again to loosen it with the impact. They come right out. I only had one that took 4 hours to come out and I soaked it with PB blaster and then proceeded to use a 3/8 ratchet to break it.

There not as bad as you think. I think a lot of people who have scared everyone around here didn't have the experience with glow plugs to know what one feels like when its not going to come out and snap, or didn't warm the motor up. Or just plain didn't know anything and were too cheap to pay someone who did. I've done glow plugs 3 times on an MB and a 7.3 truck. Air tools or an impact gun are the way to go.

Jake,
I like the idea of using an impact. do you think a cordless drill driver with an adjustable clutch would work?
I would be a little nervous with an air impact and I think you would have a better "feel" of the force being applied using a drill, you could tighten the clutch a little at a time and sneak up on it.
I used an air impact to remove the torx bolts on my intake manifold and it chewed out that star shape in the center of the bolt head the second I pulled the trigger!
I'm just asking.

ROLLGUY · #57 03-14-2017, 09:39 PM

I was able to strip the threads in the head on one with just using a ratchet, so I would personally very leery about using any kind of impact. There must have been so much carbon, it would not come out. The plug is still in the head, but the other five were able to be replaced.

funola · #58 03-14-2017, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packerfan

Jake,
I like the idea of using an impact. do you think a cordless drill driver with an adjustable clutch would work?
I would be a little nervous with an air impact and I think you would have a better "feel" of the force being applied using a drill, you could tighten the clutch a little at a time and sneak up on it.
I used an air impact to remove the torx bolts on my intake manifold and it chewed out that star shape in the center of the bolt head the second I pulled the trigger!
I'm just asking.

You need an impact that has adjustable torque. Before use, calibrate the torque setting on the impact wrench on a bolt to below the breaking point of the glow plug (published numbers). Since the impact wrench is set below the breaking point of the glow plug, it should not break. It is the hundreds of impacts per second that slowly break up the carbon and get the glow plug out in one piece. By loosening then tightening the glow plug using the impact, with penetrating oil in between, gets the job done. A ratchet is the worst tool to use since it cannot apply equal torque on the glow plug like an impact (or a T bar) can, which increases the chance of snapping a tight, carbon frozen glow plug.

packerfan · #59 03-14-2017, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

You need an impact that has adjustable torque. Before use, calibrate the torque setting on the impact wrench on a bolt to below the breaking point of the glow plug (published numbers). Since the impact wrench is set below the breaking point of the glow plug, it should not break. It is the hundreds of impacts per second that slowly break up the carbon and get the glow plug out in one piece. By loosening then tightening the glow plug using the impact, with penetrating oil in between, gets the job done. A ratchet is the worst tool to use since it cannot apply equal torque on the glow plug like an impact (or a T bar) can, which increases the chance of snapping a tight, carbon frozen glow plug.

excellent funola, makes perfect sense to me. I get it.

funola · #60 03-15-2017, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packerfan

I let the guy know several times about my glow plug concerns and he would not budge. said he wants to sell the car as is.
Time for me to skip this one and focus on a CDI.

Right decision on skipping on this one! Not sure a CDI is right for you though. I know I will never own one, unless someone gives me one. Because I would not own a car that requires going to a dealer for service on many items, one example: getting a new key.

How much you wanna bet he has one or more stuck or broken glow plugs?