Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:20 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 6,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Of Giants View Post
Diseasel300,

What exactly is diesel cracking? Is it when you give the injectors diesel purge?
Cracking injector lines. Take a 14mm wrench and loosen the nut on the top of the injector. This gives the fuel somewhere else to go besides through the injector, essentially killing fuel delivery to that cylinder. You'll develop a miss in that specific cylinder while the nut is cracked loose. Prepare for fuel to spurt out when you do it.

Extremely useful for diagnosing WHICH injector/cylinder is making the noise.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-22-2017, 07:58 AM
Father Of Giants's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Newport News, Virginia
Posts: 1,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
Cracking injector lines. Take a 14mm wrench and loosen the nut on the top of the injector. This gives the fuel somewhere else to go besides through the injector, essentially killing fuel delivery to that cylinder. You'll develop a miss in that specific cylinder while the nut is cracked loose. Prepare for fuel to spurt out when you do it.

Extremely useful for diagnosing WHICH injector/cylinder is making the noise.
So if I crack the injection lines and the injectors start bleeding, how do I figure out which one(s) are bad? Is it the one(s) that don't bleed will need to be cleaned because they are clogged? Or will the bad cracked injector make a lot of noise compared to other healthy cracked injectors?

I've seen videos of people taking apart the injection system and cleaning it. I assume it must be reasonable to follow up with taking apart and cleaning the injection system after I find out which one(s) are bad correct?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-22-2017, 10:01 AM
Father Of Giants's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Newport News, Virginia
Posts: 1,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon161 View Post
I actually found it here:
W201 Workshop Manual Download

You shouldn't need to pull the head to replace the hydraulic lifters, only the cam.

Finding things in the manual is a bit of a puzzle until you sort it out.
I will definitely get working on servicing the hydraulic lifters as soon as possible. Have I any further questions or get stumped along the way, I'll look forward to reaching out to you.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:12 AM
Diesel Preferred
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 2,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Of Giants View Post
So if I crack the injection lines and the injectors start bleeding, how do I figure out which one(s) are bad? Is it the one(s) that don't bleed will need to be cleaned because they are clogged? Or will the bad cracked injector make a lot of noise compared to other healthy cracked injectors?
If the loud nailing / banging noise goes away when you crack the injector line open, then you have located the cylinder that has a problem. Usually this is the injector, but could also be the delivery valve on the injection pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Of Giants View Post
I've seen videos of people taking apart the injection system and cleaning it. I assume it must be reasonable to follow up with taking apart and cleaning the injection system after I find out which one(s) are bad correct?
No, if you've never done injector work and don't have a pop-tester and spare shims to set the pressures, this is a job you pay someone else to do.

However, before you do anything else, run a can of Lubromoly Diesel Purge directly through the injection pump to see if that clears up the problem with the injector clacking. That will cost you about $12 at Advance or Auto Zone if you try to purchase locally, or $10 or less if you can wait for an on-line order to be delivered.

I also agree that the lifters are making some noise, but I hear something else in there as well, maybe the vacuum pump or some other accessory like the serpentine belt tension device.
__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:21 AM
Diesel Preferred
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 2,788
Please go slow, research, ask questions. MB diesel engines are VERY different, and if all your experience is with gasoline engines, you have MUCH to learn.

My approach to solving any problem is to go slow, learn about the engine and diagnose the issue by testing separate components or sections of the particular system that is suspect. When you want to do something to attempt a repair, start with things that are simple and cheap (in this case, fresh Mobil 1 synthetic oil, 0-w40 or 5w-40, and a diesel purge treatment) and then gradually progess to complex and expensive (replacing injectors, hydraulic lifters, overhauling the delivery valves).

I'd also recommend that you either purchase a mechanics stethoscope or make one with a simple rubber tube (hold one end in your ear, direct the other end close to or one any component you want to listen to).
__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:39 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Of Giants View Post
So if I crack the injection lines and the injectors start bleeding, how do I figure out which one(s) are bad? Is it the one(s) that don't bleed will need to be cleaned because they are clogged? Or will the bad cracked injector make a lot of noise compared to other healthy cracked injectors?

I've seen videos of people taking apart the injection system and cleaning it. I assume it must be reasonable to follow up with taking apart and cleaning the injection system after I find out which one(s) are bad correct?
You do not bleed all the injectors at once, you bleed one at a time to see if you get different results.
__________________
96 E300d
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-22-2017, 02:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 520
Run a can of Lubromoly Diesel Purge

X2 - Run a can of Lubromoly Diesel Purge directly through the injection pump to see if that clears up the problem with the injector clacking.

x2 on the "Go Slow" advice. Motor sounds fairly normal. No bottom end noise to my ear. That "hollow" noise is normal for the 603.961

x2 on running synthetic oil for a change cycle to clean things up internally i.e. oil journals, lifters, etc.

Renew the rubber seal rings (2) on the oil filter shaft. A few bucks from the dealer.

Before or after the diesel purge, pour half a quart of two stroke oil in the fuel tank, drive a few miles and re-evaluate.
__________________

1986 300SDL 440,xxx
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-28-2017, 07:02 PM
Father Of Giants's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Newport News, Virginia
Posts: 1,597
Just checked the lifters, they're all solid.

However, the engine was cold because battery is dead, will a cold engine give a FALSE positive?

I guess it's the fuel system, or maybe it's just the nature of engine.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-28-2017, 07:27 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 6,025
A cold engine will usually exacerbate the problems with lifters since they'll have leaked out their oil from sitting. If they were firm, you're probably ok. I will say that doing the "press test" on my lifters they all felt solid, but after cleaning them out with solvent and reinstalling, it's a night/day difference in the noise level. I'd say to change the oil with Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 Synthetic and drive the snot out of it. See if it helps.

Based on your video, you have a lot of injector "knock" going on as well. No idea how warm the engine was in the video, but these engines tend to be pretty noisy until they've been driven for 10-15 mins. Once they're good and hot, they tend to be fairly quiet (for a diesel).

If you haven't done it already, do a Diesel Purge cleaning to try cleaning the crap out of the injection pump. Could be worth your time to consider injectors soon.

Additionally your engine seems to have a lot of noise from the belt tensioner. Very common issue. Consider replacing the pulley, spring, and shock all at the same time. It'll get rid of that flapping clattery noise.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-28-2017, 08:00 PM
Father Of Giants's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Newport News, Virginia
Posts: 1,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
A cold engine will usually exacerbate the problems with lifters since they'll have leaked out their oil from sitting. If they were firm, you're probably ok. I will say that doing the "press test" on my lifters they all felt solid, but after cleaning them out with solvent and reinstalling, it's a night/day difference in the noise level. I'd say to change the oil with Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 Synthetic and drive the snot out of it. See if it helps.

Based on your video, you have a lot of injector "knock" going on as well. No idea how warm the engine was in the video, but these engines tend to be pretty noisy until they've been driven for 10-15 mins. Once they're good and hot, they tend to be fairly quiet (for a diesel).

If you haven't done it already, do a Diesel Purge cleaning to try cleaning the crap out of the injection pump. Could be worth your time to consider injectors soon.

Additionally your engine seems to have a lot of noise from the belt tensioner. Very common issue. Consider replacing the pulley, spring, and shock all at the same time. It'll get rid of that flapping clattery noise.
Ok got it.


I'll


Clean lifters
Diesel purge
Oil change
Address belt tensioner


Also the engine was stone cold in the video, it was running for 1 min
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-28-2017, 08:07 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 6,025
If it was that cold in the video, the knocking and nailing is to be expected on this era of diesels. If it goes away when it warms up, you can safely ignore it.

I'd try a synthetic oil change before pulling the lifters. The high detergent and lower viscosity is said to help dislodge varnish and crap in the lifters. My car had sat in a field for 10 years, nothing was going to budge that sticky mess other than a wash in some strong solvent. If you do wind up pulling and cleaning the lifters, make sure you keep them marked which position they went into. If you get them swapped around, you can wreck your camshaft.

Definitely fix the belt tensioner. If the spring breaks or the bolt breaks off in the front of the engine, it makes a big mess. Parts to fix it are relatively cheap and available.

Getting the belt slackened is NOT exactly straight forward. Use the tire tool and insert it in the plastic pivot piece that the spring and shock attach to. Loosen and remove the nut on the driver's side holding the plastic pivot piece in place. Take up tension with the tire tool and wiggle the bolt out towards the rear of the engine. Once it clears the plastic pivot piece, release tension and you can take the belt off. Installation is the reverse of removal.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-17-2017, 06:51 AM
Father Of Giants's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Newport News, Virginia
Posts: 1,597
Ok here's an update.
I have the service manual for removing and installing the camshaft.

And I have the manual for cam timing if necessary.

I plan on removing and cleaning the lifters to see if it helps with the noise.

I'm also going to do an oil change, diesel purge, and replace all fuel and oil filters.

For parts cleaner I going with Naptha. 2nd choice would be MEK, and my last choice is Xylene.

Once I'm done cleaning the lifts, and it's inside components, I'll spray it with brake cleaner to remove all residue.

Lastly I'm getting a mechanics stethoscope to pinpoint the problem and other possible previously unknown issues.
__________________
1998 Ford Escort ZX2 5 speed - 279,000 miles My Daily

1992 Mercedes 300D 2.5 202,000 - Pure junk
2000 Mercedes E320 Black - 136,000 miles - Needs repair

Don't forget to grease the screw and threads on the spring compressor.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-17-2017, 06:56 AM
Father Of Giants's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Newport News, Virginia
Posts: 1,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
If it was that cold in the video, the knocking and nailing is to be expected on this era of diesels. If it goes away when it warms up, you can safely ignore it.

I'd try a synthetic oil change before pulling the lifters. The high detergent and lower viscosity is said to help dislodge varnish and crap in the lifters. My car had sat in a field for 10 years, nothing was going to budge that sticky mess other than a wash in some strong solvent. If you do wind up pulling and cleaning the lifters, make sure you keep them marked which position they went into. If you get them swapped around, you can wreck your camshaft.

Definitely fix the belt tensioner. If the spring breaks or the bolt breaks off in the front of the engine, it makes a big mess. Parts to fix it are relatively cheap and available.

Getting the belt slackened is NOT exactly straight forward. Use the tire tool and insert it in the plastic pivot piece that the spring and shock attach to. Loosen and remove the nut on the driver's side holding the plastic pivot piece in place. Take up tension with the tire tool and wiggle the bolt out towards the rear of the engine. Once it clears the plastic pivot piece, release tension and you can take the belt off. Installation is the reverse of removal.
I'm gonna go ahead and clean the lifters, I don't want to potentially waste the valve cover gasket.


From research Naptha is a great parts cleaner, but how does MEK compare with Xylene?


I'm looking forward to cleaning them up today.
__________________
1998 Ford Escort ZX2 5 speed - 279,000 miles My Daily

1992 Mercedes 300D 2.5 202,000 - Pure junk
2000 Mercedes E320 Black - 136,000 miles - Needs repair

Don't forget to grease the screw and threads on the spring compressor.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-17-2017, 11:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 520
Removing Cam Caution!

[QUOTE=Father Of Giants;3700867]Ok here's an update.
I have the service manual for removing and installing the camshaft. And I have the manual for cam timing if necessary. I plan on removing and cleaning the lifters to see if it helps with the noise.
QUOTE]

Important Re pulling the cam.

The FSM cam tower bolt release sequence arrows are incorrect. Swap the light arrows for the dark arrows for the correct sequence. You'll see when you look at the cam (lobes) compressing on the valve springs.
__________________

1986 300SDL 440,xxx
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-17-2017, 12:52 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 6,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Of Giants View Post
I'm gonna go ahead and clean the lifters, I don't want to potentially waste the valve cover gasket.


From research Naptha is a great parts cleaner, but how does MEK compare with Xylene?


I'm looking forward to cleaning them up today.
All of the parts in the tappets are hard metal, you're not going to harm anything with using an aggressive solvent. I used lacquer thinner and it really got rid of all the HORRIBLE varnish in the tappets. Just make sure something that aggressive doesn't ever touch your paint, rubber, or plastic pieces.

Make sure you do the job outside. When you get the hydraulic part out of the tappets, the smell is truly horrible (wretch-inducing even).

Remember to keep your tappets in order for which valve they were matched to. If you mix them up, prepare to buy new ones or risk ruining your camshaft.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page