Good points all. They say that charging at night makes for more efficient use of the grid. Also the pollution per mile driven is supposedly quite a bit less with electric. But who knows. I say supposedly because manf. and disposal of batteries could be an unknown, which you point to.

I've read that we are unlikely to see classic Teslas owing to the brick phenomenon. Though I understand there is some controversy on that point.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I'll counter that modern gas engined cars don't last as long as a diesel engined car. Other then the engine, a gas or diesel _car_ is the same so no huge gain there. Dumping leaded fuel in the mid 70's and mid 80's better gas engine fuel control resulted in less carbon deposits and oil contamination further increasing engine life.

Cars that were expensive new ( like diesel MB ) tend to be better maintained at least early on where as low end cars suffer at the hands of those that barely want to put gas in it let alone change the oil. Maintain any car for the first 100 K and it is relatively easy sailing to the next 100. Don't maintain a car in the first 100 K and the next 25 K will be a struggle if it gets there at all.


A modern electric car has a 3 phase motor that consists of 2 bearings and some windings, hardly much to go bad in the motor.

I'm not so sure the gas / diesel MPG is as great as it once was. Having to deal with smelly refuels , cold starts isn't worth the small difference MPG for some. Now in large trucks and construction equipment, diesel is the only way to go at the moment though I see nat gas becoming more popular due to current availability.

VW designed a system that would meet the black letter requirements of the EPA, and it did. It didn't however the spirit of the rules. Don't think other car makers haven't been doing this for years. In the 80's, Ford had a specific "preconditioning" sequence that needed to be run before performing a tail pipe emission test, no other manufacturer had this beyond " make sure the car is warmed up. "

The HP isn't there if you don't use it on a turbo / diesel. In the earlier days of emission regulated gas engines, wide open throttle was not part of the test. I have no idea if this is still the case or not.

There are some cars that have a "sport" mode that changes engine behavior, ( crackel on over run / shift cut ) I wonder what mode the EPA tests are run under?

Lot of talk here about VW and GM, but there are suits against MB too. Their Bluetec emission system gets turned off below 10deg C . In Canada, that means 60% of the time. Law suits in both countries. Our GLK250 is one of the cars in question. Great vehicle though.

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

All true. But it also has a very expensive battery pack with a limited lifespan. Spending $5k on a battery pack every 10 years isn't all that appealing.

The real problem is the elitist clowns who live in mansions and fly on private jets while telling the rest of us to cut back. Or calling us "deniers" for asking questions about their faulty climate theories.

__________________
1998 E300 turbodiesel

America's Rights and Freedoms Are Not The Enemy!

Just what is the "real problem" that these elitists are causing?

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

LOL @ torsionbar

__________________
CENSORED due to not family friendly words

I don't see the internal combustion engine going anywhere in the airplane application either - jet (turbine) or piston type.

__________________
Jim

Just how many battery packs have been put in electric (you have to count hybrid too) cars that are older than 10 years? It's a real easy number to count: zero.

Do you mean the elitists that live in hotels with their own names on them and fly in private jets than have their own names on them to golf courses that also have their own names on them? Oh, you mean the "other" elitists. Got it.

__________________
1983 W123 300TD US spec Turbo engine, with Euro bumpers and manual climate control, and manual transmission.

Not sure how you can disagree when one of the rules is specifically not to have defeat devices.

VW met the requirements when the emissions were turned on. But, what they did was install a defeat device that shut the emissions off unless the car detected it was being tested. That is not designing to the rules, it's entirely avoiding them. FCA, M-B, GM, and most likely we will find many others that also installed defeat devices...which is what they are getting into hot water for now as well.

__________________
1983 W123 300TD US spec Turbo engine, with Euro bumpers and manual climate control, and manual transmission.

Who told you that? My next door neighbor is on his third battery pack in his '00 Honda Insight. That's a 17 year old car by my math. And I have a friend who's on his second battery pack in his '08 Tesla, ten years on the nose.

Correct. Mr. Hotel isn't telling me to cut back, or lining the pockets of his friends with my bucks, or insulting me with long winded empty headed speeches like his predecessor.

__________________
1998 E300 turbodiesel

America's Rights and Freedoms Are Not The Enemy!

I thought I'd heard about that.


Hmmmm ...

Does lining his own pockets with your bucks count?

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I think you missed the point. The elitist that you mention carries on like that without preaching to others about "global warming" from to large of a "carbon foot print". Unlike A.Gore who has a home that consumes five time the electric of the average home, and flies to Davos to flap his gums for ten minutes about global warming.

"Do as I say, not as I do".

Some animals are created more equal than others. Nothing to see here, move along...

__________________
Current stable:
1995 E320 149K (Nancy)
1983 500SL 120K (SLoL)

Black Sheep:
1985 524TD 167K (TotalDumpster™)

Gone but not forgotten:
1986 300SDL (RIP)
1991 350SD
1991 560SEL
1990 560SEL
1986 500SEL Euro (Rusted to nothing at 47K!)

But it all about perspective. Knowing I might have to pay later is not all that bad.

My friends and neighbors each had transmission issues with their vehicles. Two of them own a Honda Odyssey and a Honda MDX and both shelled out almost $5000 on unexpected transmission replacements after their warranty expired. The third had a Buick Enclave, same cost for the transmission replacement and said to hell with it and traded the car in.

So new cars these days are hit and miss. You think you got a good reliable car and boom, your paying the same amount of money as a new main traction battery. All about perspective.


Btw- My 2005 Prius recently had the dreaded lights go up on the dashboard. It’s been very reliable all these years until then. I ended up pulling the codes, removing the traction battery out of the car and fixed it by replacing two low battery modules. A $50 eBay fix by myself saves me $4000 at the dealership and I am on my way.


.

__________________
1983 123.133 California
- GreaseCar Veg System

I quite honestly think that driving a car for 20 years has always been an exception, never the norm.
I don't remember seeing many '60's cars in the '80's, or '70's cars in the '90's...

That really hasn't been any different than it is today.

For most people a car is an A-to-B appliance. My wife thinks operating her vehicle is just as exciting as operating, say, a dishwasher or a lawnmower. It's a task that needs to be done, not one that is to be enjoyed.

Whether it's her Camry (which actually is an appliance, I hate that thing) or my Lil' zoom-zoom Mazda or Ol'Betsie; she sees no difference between the three. She doesn't get the excitement of zipping the 5-speed Mazda hard around sharp corners or lazily cruisin' in ye olde Benz.

She is the rule, not the exception. We are. So everyone throws their A-to-B appliance away after 7-10 years and gets something else.

Has always been the case, will always be the case.

__________________
"The MB W123 is so bulletproof, you can drive them forever. Which is a good thing as it takes that long to get anywhere."
Betsie: 1984 W123 300D (hobby, 280k miles)
Myrla: 2001 Mazda Protege 2.0 ES 5spd (daily driver, 130k miles)
The Turd: 2007 Toyota Camry (wife's car, 118k miles)