E.P.C. Alternatives
 

For us, $75 a year is not mean the E.P.C. is available. Worse, where is that money going to since was told by the Classic Center they no longer update the E.P.C.?

Online there are a couple sites with W123 M110 diagrams and part numbers:
Mercedes Benz EPC 123.093 Chassis Information Everything Benz
https://www.niemoeller.de/en/w123t/

However, seem to be lacking some information. Does anyone else have any other sources?

Hopefully can turn this into a forum resource, so thank y'all for making it happen in advance. :D

Go to ebay and look for epc/wis for Mercedes. It will say it is just for later models, but the epc is the full epc. Costs about $15-$20. Works fine. Not updated, but not a problem for our old cars.

Graham, thank you so very much! :D

Mind me asking how one avoids being scammed? Or is there a sell or sellers that are better choice?

I think you are protected by ebay.

If you're in a hurry, you can visit the MB of South Atlanta website.

I bought one that had a bad disk. Seller evaporated.

Be aware that these copies run as XP virtual machines. That means:

1) unless you run a separate installation of your antivirus software, they are superb tools for distributing Trojans and worms.

2) the base operating system is a very old copy of XP. Even though XP is out of maintenance, there are years of fixes on the MS site that should be applied.

3) you will require a ton of disk space, memory and cpu bandwidth to make it work.

All that taken into consideration, it works well.

There was a long discussion about these on BW.

Electronic Parts Catalog IS NO LONGER FREE - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Starting at about post#38. No problems it seems with the first linked eBay seller in that thread.

Some other options in posts 28 & 30 of this link:
Free On-Line EPC parts lookup - includes Euro models - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

There have been several posts about the dangers etc of using these eBay EPC disks. But haven't heard of anyone actually having a problem.
If concerned, there is no need to be connected to internet while using the XP virtual machine that gets installed.
If concerned about viruses on disks, make sure you run your virus checker.
Buy from vendor with a very high feedback rating.
If disks do not install properly at first, give them a good clean. I and at least one other owner had to do that.

I baught a copy of epc/wis before I got my xentry system. It too came with a bad disk, but the seller was very helpful and set up a private download for the disk so I didn't have to wait for shipping again.

All that being said, there is a lot of buyer protection on eBay.

I too would suggest getting an old lapto to run this on and not letting it connect to the internet. As said above they are notorious for having malware in them.

As for eBay protection:
eBay does nothing, been ripped off several times mounting to over $1,000. Now what I do is don't use Paypal, instead go direct so if an issue, can dispute through the Credit Union and hopefully get resolution.

Somehow missed those in my E.P.C. search, so thank you Graham for informing us of them.

Read it and saved the one for Macintosh if so desire.

Somewhere (lot of stuff jammed into every crevice), have a XP desktop that because of a glitch on the motherboard, can't hook up to the internet, so that be a good machine. However, would have to find it...

Instead, just not use the internet while running the virtual machine. Heck, don't have any antivirus on the Microsoft desktop (oft not hooked up to the internet) or the Macintosh laptop, as haven't found a free one that trust. So far, nothing noticeable.

But, if did have an issue, can clean up and then run it on the other machine. In short, good ideas, thank you.

For some reason I thought the EPC only worked on Windows machines. I never subscribed for that reason. I too am a Mac user, and would like to have the EPC available. I have an old Mac laptop that is not connected to the internet, and wonder if that would work?

The E.P.C. on C.D. runs as a virtual machine, like VMWare, thus how doing it here in post 50: Electronic Parts Catalog IS NO LONGER FREE - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum .

Apparently also can run it on VMWare, but don't quite understand that.

My MacBook Air was a gift by a deceased relative, but like to find a way to purchase the 32gigabit Pro supposedly coming in Winter. As of now, only have 4 gigabytes in each, so not going to be running it for now. But, with 16 gigabytes, that should be enough.

Oh, and 8 gigabytes is barely enough to run eQuest (energy and E.C.M. simulation software), especially with AutoC.A.D. open. Rather than gaming as probably intended. 4 gigabytes gets interesting when using VMWare... :P

And Rich, if not using VMWare, do suggest it. Find easier than Bootcamp. Which on the 2013 Air I have, wouldn't run, kept crashing and deleting itself. That is how have run E.P.C. when it was free.

Hoe this helps...

Interesting: Mercedes WIS / ASRA & EPC Service Repair Workshop Manual Guide (software) | eBay

Works with ALL 32 and 64 Bit versions of all Windows!

Supported Operating Systems:
Windows XP (32 or 64 bit)
Windows Vista (32 or 64 bit)
Windows 7 (32 or 64 bit)
Windows 8 (32 or 64 bit)
Windows 10 (32 or 64 bit)


System Requirements:
2GHz Processor (If you have a Pentium 4 Processor, it needs to be a 600 Series or Newer)
2GB RAM
65GB Hard Drive Space
DVD-ROM Drive
The photo in the listing shows a MacBook Pro running the software, but no where in the listing can I find Mac OS as an option, all are Windows.....Rich

On a tangent about how to get the disk to run: My 126 FSM quit running after XP.

I have the files extracted and stored with the default folder structure. Mercedes breaks the FSM up into Body, Chassis, Electrical etc. There is a htm file and a swf (Flash) file for each vehicle for each category. The htm file is simply there to look pretty and hold the embedded swf file. The swf has the actual menu to help locate the individual pdf files.

ie 300SD body, chassis, electrical .htm & .swf.

You only need to find the correct swf file and run it. The swf is essentially a menu that causes the FSM pdf file to download via your default browser into the download directory. Simply open the pdf and you have the FSM.

Perhaps the epc works the same way. Send me a PM if you want a link to the FSM.

The WIS/ASRA + EPC disks contain a complete Windows XP Virtual Machine. The installer disk has a freebie version of VMWare on it for Windows machines. Mac users can pick up a version of VMWare or VMWare Fusion to do the same thing.

The disks (There are 4 of them) contain a highly compressed file that will expand into the VM itself. Expect to have ~50GB free on the machine you want to run it on.

Once you get it set up and running, it contains a full version of the WIS/ASRA and EPC operating environments. I have a copy of this software and can confirm that it does work. Please note that it is NOT a substitute for the FSM, many of the diagrams and drawings are of poor/overly-compressed quality compared to the FSM available through StarTek or CD. The WIS is very useful for getting hold of procedures and getting lists of steps required to do particular tasks. Searching through it is very tedious and things you want to look for are often mis-labeled or under alternative titles. Whoever did the English implementation just phoned it in.

Rich, remember it is a virtual machine, just like Fusion and VMWare. If you follow the instructions posted on the B.W. thread, looks like it should perform just the same.

What we need is Graham, think he ran it on a Macintosh.

I'm currently running the WIS/EPC VM on a 2012 Macbook Pro running MacOS Sierra. It runs just fine.

Thank you so very much! :D

As a third V.M.? Or on the Macintosh side?

It runs as a self-contained VM from VMWare Fusion running in the Mac OS. I have a couple of other Windows VM's in my library for other purposes, but the WIS/EPC is by far the largest.

Okay, so if we have any questions, we know who to ask. ;) :P

Sorry - not me. Last Apple I owned was an Apple IIe! If Mac users read the BW links posted earlier, there are several there who are running epc on Macs and have explained how they did it. The eBay vendor won't help you with Mac install details, but apparently it can be done. Diseasel300 seems to have it figured too.

A bit off-topic, but a GREAT computer! I still have mine! My parents ran their business on one from 1983-1992 before migrating to the Mac world.

But yes, the EPC VM does run on the Mac, just don't expect to use any of the "Installer" features. Getting it up and running is a little unorthodox, but once you have it recognized by VMWare, it works just fine.

Guess my brain went to bed before my body. :P

And an Apple IIe was the first computer I used, B.T.W..:P

Thank you for the reply! :D

Wish my "mother" hadn't thrown out her's, hardly ever used so probably work just fine.

Anyway, thought you said it was separate V.M. from V.M.Ware? Or are you saying both approaches work?

So the reason for the complex installation is because doesn't do it automatically, okay, good to know.

VMWare is the program that runs on the host operating system (MacOS, Windows, Linux) and then runs the "Virtual Machine" that's basically just a file on your computer.

The EPC/WIS VM is just that. A Virtual Machine. All 4 DVD's unpack into a single file that VMWare then reads as a "Virtual Machine".

VMWare Fusion on the Mac uses a different file format than full blown VMWare that's available for all operating systems. As a result, the file you unpack from the DVD's isn't automatically recognized. You have to navigate through the file and manually open the VMWare file and magically VMWare Fusion will "bless" your VM as if it were a native format.

Kinda lame when you think about it objectively, but it is what it is. Once the VM has opened and run, it will show up in your VMWare library.

All this is new to me, and I am not too computer savvy. I have a Mac because it is stupid simple to operate, so I qualify. I have had the need to look up part numbers often, so this kind of software is of great interest to me. However, I get flustered easily when technical things don't work as easy as I hope they should. If someone else that has been successful installing this on a Mac could give detailed step-by-step instructions, I might try it. After all, it is less than $20. Not much to loose if I can't make it work......Rich

But, could you go though the Macintosh O.S. and have it as another V.M.? Meaning in your toolbar, you would have V.M.Ware and E.P.C.?

Maybe can return favor.
 

Rich, neither am I computer literate. If you can wait until Saturday, will see if can succeed and if so, will share of course being part of a community. :P

I will work on getting a write-up done in the next day or so. Bear with me, we're entering our "busy" season at work so things are a little chaotic.

10-4
 

Thank you for taking time to do this for us despite the schedual.

While waiting for Diseasel, impatient Mac owners might find help here:

Electronic Parts Catalog IS NO LONGER FREE - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

I have no problem paying $75 per year for the online EPC, but I would have to get a Windows computer. Yes I could probably get a cheap laptop on CL, and may just do that. However, I am also concerned that if I somehow get the ebay $16 program to work in my Mac, I may run out of space in my hard drive. It seems like a very large program. I am not sure what is best, so I will just wait a bit to see if Adriel gets it working on his Mac........Rich

Would something like this be adequate for using the ebay EPC program or online?
EXCELLENT CONDITION, Dell Vostro 1000 laptop windows Vista, wireless internet, DVDR/W lightscribe drive, 2GIG Ram, 120 GIG Hard Drive. GREAT PC COMPUTER FOR HOME , BUSINESS, OR SCHOOL.

Specification:
Dell Vostro 1000 laptop
AMD CPU 2.0 GHZ
2GIG RAM
120 GIG HDD
DVD/RW lightscribe drive
Wireless for internet
MULTIMEDIA SOUND
HEADPHONE
MICROPHONE
ETHERNET PORT
USB PORTS
VGA PORT
AC adapter/ charger
Rechargeable battery


WINDOWS Vista HOME PREMIUM.

Rich, consider that Microsoft has killed XP, next is Vista.

Worse, only 2 gigabytes, exactly what the program takes. Having used 2, 4, and 8, would not wish 2 gigabytes even on my enemy. You can upgrade to 1 gigabyte each slot for total of 4, but means putting money into something that is not long term.

Since willing to spend a hefty amount of money ($75 plus a year), how about looking for at least a 8 gigabyte Windows 7?

7 should be supported for a while, compromise between XP (my favorite) and 10 (current and a R.A.M. sucker).

Edit: This fellow, who have no experience with: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Pavillion-17-e020dx-AMD-A8-ATI-RADEON-HD8550-NEW-8GIG-PC12800-NEW-750-GB-HDD-/132199615852?hash=item1ec7b60d6c:g:-k0AAOSwgQ9VqXnp, claims to build custom laptops, maybe ask. Just a thought... hope helps.

Getting the EPC + WIS/ASRA VMWare Image Working in Mac OS:
 

Please note that this is a simplified guide to getting this software working on Macs. You need to be running OSX 10.8 or later. As always, if you screw up your computer, don’t yell at me or hold the forum liable. Use at your own risk.

Before you start you will need the following:

1: 4 DVD set of the Mercedes EPC + WIS/ASRA available from eBay
2: RAR Expander available as a free download here: RAR Expander
3: VMWare Fusion. Available as a free 30 day trial here:
Download VMware Fusion 8.5 or Fusion 8.5 Pro - VMware Products

Now to set up your software:

1: Start by installing VMWare Fusion. Open the file you downloaded from above and run the installer. If you paid for it, insert your license code. If you already have it installed, skip this step.

2: Rar Expander comes in a ZIP file. Double click it and it will self-extract. Move the extracted RAR Expander program to your main Applications Folder.

3: Make sure you have 50GB of free space on your hard disk. If you aren’t sure, click the apple logo in the upper left corner of your screen and go to “About This Mac”. In the window that opens, click the “Storage” tab. You want to see more than 50GB “available”. If you have less, you will need to clear out some space or use an external drive to extract your VM onto (that is beyond the scope of this how-to). See the first image below for what you’re looking for. Note that my computer already has the VM extracted onto it. (See the 1st picture)

4: Insert DVD #1 of 4 in your DVD slot and wait for it to appear on the Desktop. Double click the DVD icon to open it. You should see a file titled “Mercedes Virtual PC.part1.rar” (see the 2nd picture) You are not interested in ANY of the other files on the disk.

5: Double click the “Mercedes Virtual PC.part1.rar” file and it should open and ask where you want to extract it to. For right now, click on the “Desktop” button and let her rip. You will see a folder called “Mercedes Virtual PC” show up on the desktop and the program will begin extracting into it.

6: At this point you’re going to be doing some waiting. A lot of it. Each disk takes ~30-45 minutes to decompress depending on your computer and drive speed.

7: When each disk is extracted, the program will stop and ask you where the next file is located. For example, when Part 1 is complete, it will stop and ask where “Mercedes Virtual PC.part2.rar” is located. When this happens, eject the current DVD and insert the next one. Wait for it to show up on the Desktop, then point the installer to it for it to continue extracting. (See the 3rd picture).

8: When the image finishes extracting and you’ve grown older and your clothes have gone out of style, you’re ready to set up your VM. Open VMWare Fusion and choose File -> Open. In the window that pops up, navigate to your Mercedes Virtual PC folder and open the file titled “Mercedes Virtual PC.vmx”. It should have an icon associated with it that looks like the VMWare icon. (see the 4th picture)

Continued...
 

9: The file will open and present you with a black screen with a “play button” in the middle of it. Click it to start the VM. If you are asked if you want to “Upgrade” your VM, go ahead and do it. (See the 1st picture)

10: You will be asked if you moved or copied your VM. Choose “I Copied It”. (See 2nd picture)

11: The VM will now boot for the first time. Let it do its thing. Depending on how fast your computer is, this may take a few seconds or a few minutes. On the first boot, VMWare should automatically run an installer to install the latest version of VMWare Tools. (See the 3rd picture) Let this process complete. It will take a few minutes. When completed, you’ll be asked if you want the VM rebooted. Choose “Yes”.

12: Congratulations. You now have a working EPC/WIS system on your Mac!

For those wanting to use a Windoze computer to run the VMWare program, please note that you need a relatively modern mid-spec or higher computer for VMWare to run properly. At a minimum you should be running no less than 4GB of RAM (preferably 8GB+) and your processor must support Intel VT-x technology. AMD has a similar technology referred to as AMD-V, but I haven't had good success with programs like VMWare recognizing it.

The Mac guys have it easy, Apple has been using VT-x capable CPU's since 2007 in ALL of their machines. Anyone who used a Mac in the 90s probably remembers Virtual PC before Micro$oft got a hold of it and ruined it.

This machine would ONLY be used to access the online EPC, or run the program available from eBay. If it has the capacity to do that, then that is all I would need. What would be the minimum specs I would need to run the program? I don't want to spend a lot on a computer. Also, I don't have Internet access where I work on cars, so having EPC access on a laptop without WiFi would be best for me.........Rich

Here:
So my suggestion of at least 8 gigabytes has been confirmed. Diseasel300 as strongly suggested an Intel processor, that is the only one I too have experience with, but not knowledgeable enough to be of much use, except to say more cores, more processing power. Myself only have a dual core, 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7 and 4 gigabytes of R.A.M..

Diseasel300, thanks for the write up. So what happens after the 30 day trial expires?

After the 30 day trial expires, you can either perpetually reinstall VMWare every time you want to use it (pain), or shell out for the program. Of the VM enviornments available for the Mac, VMWare Fusion is by far the best available anyway. It's useful for more than just the EPC, if you ever have a Windows-only or Linux program you want to run, you can set up a separate VM for that. I've used it for years to get around the hassle of running 2 computers. 98% of what I run is on the Mac, that pesky 2% isn't enough to justify another laptop.

Like many others I went with the ebay VM version of the EPC. I also have the BMW VM which covers motorcycles in case that interests anyone.

I have all the service manuals too. Those were a constant source of trouble with every update. I use Firefox ESR to slow the pace of change but 95% of my computer problems come with an update. A windows update glitch last year caused all the machines I maintain to run at over 50% cpu continuously. For months this continued without any solution except to turn off updates - not safe. The last straw for me was having to download the local service manual PDFs every time I opened a section of the service manual. I've dealt with this several times before by changing security settings but this time nothing worked. All I wanted was to view the PDF in a browser window and not open Adobe reader or download a PDF from my own C drive.

My solution was a used 5 year old Panasonic Tough-book CF-31 core I5 8gb running Win7. I added the Mercedes and BMW VMs and an old version of Firefox that restored the desired service manual behavior. To prevent any updates to the machine under advanced settings for the Ethernet adapter I removed IPV6 and edited IPV4 to a fixed address with no gateway. That way the machine can communicate with local network resources like my printer and NAS but it can't connect to the internet. It's set to not share with other machines on the network.

VMs can also be prevented from connecting to the internet either by disabling the network bridge inside the VM settings or disabling the Ethernet adapter inside the guest OS. The Mercedes EPC wants an internet connection so the above won't work. To get around this in XP's control panel set the Ethernet adapter to a fixed address with no gateway (like I did for the Win 7 host). The EPC will think it has an internet connection but XP will be prevented from communicating with the outside world. The BMW software worked fine by simply disabling the Ethernet adapter.

I also added an Ubuntu VM for internet access. In this case I left the Ethernet settings alone and allowed the VM to bridge to the host Ethernet adapter. This gives the Ubuntu VM internet access but the host still has no access beyond my local network. I can open all the VMs at once without slowing the system.

The result is the windows 7 host can have all the programs I need with access to printing and shared resources but without internet access and therefore no updates. The BMW and EPC XP VMs have no internet access while the Ubuntu VM has full internet access for browsing. I turn it on every day and it just works.

The Toughbook is about as rugged a laptop as you can get. It's perfect for bringing out to the garage. It has a super bright screen that can be viewed in direct sunlight. It has water resistance and can be dropped on cement from 6 feet without damage.

I leave it docked most of the time and use it via remote desktop. I get all my favorite software configured how I like it and I don't have to go through hours of troubleshooting after every update just to get back to where I started! Also the CF-31 is in current production with updated internals and full accessory compatibility with older models so in five years when the new ones are retired I'll get another one and lock it down like this one.

BTW: I was able to edit the matrix.swf files to get rid of the annoying engine sound at launch. I still want to fix the loading delay for the year buttons. If anyone has a fix for that I'd love to hear it. 85 seems to take forever and I'm sure it looked slick the first time but it gets old! I'd also like to edit the matrix to eliminate the Disk 1/2 split.

So there you have it guys - piece of cake :)

Hey Rich, sorry didn't get to this much sooner.

Okay, had some trouble because of my actual laptop allotted VMWare memory (total is 500G.B., but only 70 on the split).

This lead to me extracting the files on the Macintosh side. I used RAR Expander to extract the .rar files.

The only thing is that you have to manually watch, as does not tell you how the progress is going or ask for the next disk. Not a problem for me, as only took about 15 minutes a disk, so about an hour and was using the E.P.C.. Instead of asking, states an error finding the next part. You simply eject the C.D., put the other one in, and select the path.

Once done, still puts a folder on the desktop. To open, will need either VMWare or VMWare Fusion. Then, you can expand to full screen and it is then the same as running Windows O.S..

Not sure how much R.A.M. ended up getting allotted, but works just fine.

In summery, one does not need to purchase an additional Windows O.S., simply download the different expander and run from Macintosh.

Hope this helps. :D

RarExpander was linked in the original writeup. The pictures clearly show what what prompt will look like when it asks for the next piece.

You're very lucky that it only took you 15 mins per disk. Mine was more like 30! There's a reason I never buy software on CD or DVD anymore...

The default RAM allocated to the VM is 512MB, which is MORE than adequate for XP doing nothing more than running a Java VM within IE.

Well, I missed it, sorry offended.

Did seem the instructions were to be on the Windows side, using 7 Extruder, but guess got mixed up with instructions that come with the C.Ds.

Not lucky, have a good computer. :P

Which V.M.? You mean that any V.M.Ware is going to always allot 512M.B.? Odd then my Windows 7 is at the 70G.B.. Something to keep in mind when setting up, since once have V.M.Ware installed, can never increase the size of its memory partition (older versions of Macintosh O.S. could).

RAM and "memory" are different things.

The VM storage size on the hard disk drive is fairly large. The EPC VM is ~46GB. Windows 7 can easily bloat to 100GB+ with very little on it if you run the 64 bit version. This is the storage space on the hard disk where all the files are stored, not the RAM used by the VM when it runs.

The RAM usage can be set in the preferences of the VM. Windows XP is typically set to 512MB, but can be changed if you prefer (there's no reason to). Windows 7 will typically allocate 4GB by default. The amount you can use depends on what is fitted to your computer. Most newer Macs come with 8GB of RAM standard.

You should not be creating separate partitions on your hard disk for the VM's to live in. The VM is its own self-contained file and does not need it's own "drive". The VMWare program takes care of all that for you. The folder you extracted from the RAR files on the DVD *IS THE VM ITSELF* There's nothing more you need to do other than open it with VMWare.

Think of it as a MS Word document, except instead of pulling up a written document, you're pulling up a fully working operating system, just run within a window (or fullscreen if you go that route).

First, please excuse me for mixing up RAR and RAM.

Actually, R.A.M. is memory, in that random-access memory. I.I.R.C. on a Microsoft O.S., if need more R.A.M., seeks space on your internal memory, this why need to clear that catch out for increased speed. Been a long time, so probably wrong.

Better yet, there is this from Wikipedia:
Random-access memory (RAM /ræm/) is a form of computer data storage which stores frequently used program instructions to increase the general speed of a system. A random-access memory device allows data items to be read or written in almost the same amount of time irrespective of the physical location of data inside the memory. In contrast, with other direct-access data storage media such as hard disks, CD-RWs, DVD-RWs and the older drum memory, the time required to read and write data items varies significantly depending on their physical locations on the recording medium, due to mechanical limitations such as media rotation speeds and arm movement.

Hard disk memory of the V.M. Windows 7 that I have is 70G.B., I.I.R.C.. Love to have more, but alas upgraded to Yosemite before knowing it doesn't allow it. Or am I missing something? Was using the online instructions, but didn't match.

When I got my Air, 4 gigabytes was standard, but since could option the gift, did it, so have 8, split 4 and 4 (was 6 and 2, but too slow for eQuest and AutoC.A.D., especially if running at the same time).

Windows 7 is partitioned, thus why can't increase the hard disk memory. If wrong, love to know.

As to E.P.C., don't think it partitioned. I simply just opened it using V.M.Ware. If couldn't open it as you suggest, how did I obtain that screenshot? Why would I go to all that work to fabricate a lie?

Good grief, all wanted to do was help folks out and end up getting chewed up. No good deed goes unpunished, it seems.