Future of old diesels? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

wstetson3 · #1 07-18-2017, 08:56 PM

I read that several towns (in Germany) are banning diesels. It seems like they would "grandfather" the older cars but they are checking pollution levels and they decided that (all) diesels are the biggest cause. I'm not even here to discuss that being the truth or not. The values and sales numbers are both falling in Germany according to the article.

The values in European countries will certainly continue to plummet on any diesel. The interest in the old 123's here appears to be less than it once was. I guess now is a good time to get parts or parts cars because they don't bring near as much as they once did. I would really like to make one nice old 123 but fixing one would certainly leave me in the red. That happens a lot with any car, but I don't want to end up with a nice dinosaur nobody would take off my hands at any price. That might be an exaggeration but you know what I mean.

I really doubt the US will ever ban diesels from any town or state but I wonder if they would ever decide to impose a tax or something else that would ultimately deter any prospective buyers. I want to believe Americans love old cars more than most countries but the recent bad press for diesels hasn't done much to help the diesel cause.

We can all agree that we're here because we like these old diesels but, being such a small segment of the population, I don't think it will change the general perception of diesel cars (or even trucks) to any measurable degree.

So, what's the overall opinion on the future of these old Mercedes diesels? Will the value rebound? Will there ever be another surge in interest in these old cars?

I'm not an expert on pollution, diesels, or any other automotive subject, but the batteries in the hybrid vehicles don't seem to be good for the earth either. Honestly, I drive a Prius for work. That thing has no soul. It has value as a tool to make a living (I drive A LOT) but that's it. These old cars are much more interesting to me than any electric or hybrid car will ever be. Are we the last of the breed?

ROLLGUY · #2 07-18-2017, 09:29 PM

I traveled through Europe (8 countries) in May this year, and the Diesel population is very high. Practically every manufacturer makes and sells Diesel vehicles, and it seems that every other car on the road is Diesel powered. I find it hard to believe that the could "ban" Diesels all together. Yes maybe a fuel tax that would price them out of the market, but that would even be met with much resistance. The same here in the States- Diesels are very popular. I don't see gas truck sales rising, and Diesel sales falling.

tjts1 · #3 07-18-2017, 09:37 PM

European cities are disgusting with diesel pollution. In Barcelona every time it rains you can see the soot get washed off of buildings and streets. The storm drains run black. Downtown LA air today is much cleaner than any major European city where diesels make more than 50% of the vehicle population. I'm surprised it took them this long to ban diesels.

ROLLGUY · #4 07-18-2017, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

European cities are disgusting with diesel pollution. In Barcelona every time it rains you can see the soot get washed off of buildings and streets. The storm drains run black. Downtown LA air today is much cleaner than any major European city where diesels make more than 50% of the vehicle population. I'm surprised it took them this long to ban diesels.

That is interesting. When in Europe (at least where we were), the sky was clean and blue for the entire time (except the few times when raining). At no time did the air seem the slightest bit polluted. That is just my experience. I am sure the powers that be have a different view. It may be that in some countries there are more older Diesels, but where we went, we saw very few vehicles older than about 15 years. Diesels are much cleaner today than they ever were.

pawoSD · #5 07-18-2017, 10:45 PM

Your going to find far more older diesels in cities like Barcelona (or most cities in spain) than you will in your average city in Germany. Per capita income in Germany is roughly $41,219 currently, while in spain it is only $25,831. Big difference. Older cars means more pollution. When I was traveling around Germany and Austria there are diesels absolutely everywhere, but nothing was polluted, the air was easily as clean as it is here....if not better. I don't really recall seeing any diesels emitting visible smoke, they were very few and far between. Their inspections there are so stringent that a poorly running car doesn't survive long on the roads.

Dieselfanatic · #6 07-18-2017, 10:52 PM

I think this is mainly a problem with the type of diesel fuel used, rather than the diesel engine. ULSD was a step in the right direction for Europe, but they need to go much farther. For example, here in California, we have an alternative diesel fuel, "NExBTL", sold by Neste Oil CO. This is a type or renewable fuel made primarily from flax seeds, I believe. Much lower emissions compared to ULSD and even biodiesel. This fuel is imported from Finland. I believe Germany, and other areas of Europe should impliment this technology, and observe the difference.

torsionbar · #7 07-18-2017, 11:04 PM

All heavy equipment is diesel powered, and there are no alternatives in sight. This alone ensures that diesel engines will be with us for a long time yet. It also ensures that diesel technology will continue to advance, and will continue to trickle down to passenger cars.

Yes old diesels are stinky and pollute a fair amount. Guess what, so do old gasoline cars. Ever been stuck behind a carbureted gasoline car with no catalytic converter? The smell is intolerable. Not sure why people like to single out old diesels as being the stinkers.

There will always be fruit loop cities looking to make headlines with bizarre legislation. But diesel cars ain't going away any time soon. You already see today in most US cities strict emissions testing and vehicle inspections. You also don't see many old cars in those cities, because people replace them rather than repair them. This is not a new phenomenon, and it has nothing to do with gasoline vs diesel.

Dieselfanatic · #8 07-18-2017, 11:21 PM

Exactly, torsionbar. Diesels are here to stay, and I strongly believe they will be around long after the electric car craze has died down. Diesel engines are simply too damn useful and efficient, and they are only going to get better and better as time goes on. I harbor some animosity towards VW for royally screwing up and giving the diesel engine a bad name.

tjts1 · #9 07-18-2017, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieselfanatic

Diesels are here to stay, and I strongly believe they will be around long after the electric car craze has died down.

Daimler drops bid to sell 2017 Mercedes diesels in US - Autoblog

Volvo Cars to stop developing new diesel engines -CEO

Toyota seeks to stop investing in diesel engines altogether: exec

Volkswagen to kill off its small diesels within six years

Porsche may ditch diesel engines: CEO

Renault considers killing off diesel engines - BBC News

Dieselfanatic · #10 07-19-2017, 12:51 AM

Neste renewable diesel sees Finnish consumers save 560 round the world flights worth of emissions | Biofuels International Magazine

That is why I hold true to my previous point. Companies like this who develop vastly superior fuels will ultimately save the diesel engine in small economical cars, which is what these debates are about. There is no question that they will remain in large trucks, as there is simply no alternative.

Turbo190D · #11 07-19-2017, 09:10 AM

Old vehicles will eventually be regulated off the road regardless of the fuel they consume. I think it will be many decades before it happens, especially in the US. Eventually we'll get some legislation like a lot of European countries have, where vehicles have to meet certain age/mileage requirements.

I wouldn't worry about seeing it in our lifetime, personally. A lot of states in the US don't require emissions testing at all.

sloride · #12 07-19-2017, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo190D

Old vehicles will eventually be regulated off the road regardless of the fuel they consume. I think it will be many decades before it happens, especially in the US. Eventually we'll get some legislation like a lot of European countries have, where vehicles have to meet certain age/mileage requirements.

I wouldn't worry about seeing it in our lifetime, personally. A lot of states in the US don't require emissions testing at all.

Agree on the, to be regulated off the road in non attainment areas. Or they may say put on a DPF on your mid eighties MB diesel to bring it up to modern emission standards. At which point they get parked for good.

jabstick420 · #13 07-19-2017, 11:06 AM

We were on a trip to Italy a few weeks ago and almost every single vehicle on the road was a diesel... Mostly bimmers, fiats, lancias, and some benzes

With guys like Mark Cosovich restoring W123s, it seems that they'll be around for a while. And people are waiting months and paying $$$ to get them.

dkr · #14 07-19-2017, 01:42 PM

I predict that newer cars will continue to be made more disposable with ever greater technology that cannot be repaired and eventually people will start selling their kidneys to lease out the latest and greatest while the old diesels just keep chugging along.

Dkr.

Clemson88 · #15 07-19-2017, 02:10 PM

I'm 65 y/o. I will drive my car as long as it's safe for me to drive any car. My car goes to my son who has spent time with me doing repairs and restoring it.

I don't give a rat's twat what Europe and the manufacturers do about production of diesel because I wouldn't spend the money on one of the new cars anyway. If they make my car illegal I will put the SE decorations back on the body and drive it anyway swearing it's a gasser. It won't be the first or worst lie I've told.