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  #16  
Old 11-02-2017, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj67coll View Post
I doubt' we have a bad diesel situation here as the problem occurs exclusively at cold start in the morning. No issues for the rest of the day.

- Peter.
When the engine is stone-cold, it usually needs the glow plugs to provide some heat in the cylinder to allow a relatively smooth start. Without the glow plugs operating, you have to wait for the heat of air compression to warm the cylinder to a point that the fuel will vaporize and ignite, even then the bulk of the fuel remains unburnt due to low cylinder/prechamber temps. After 30 seconds of runtime or whatever, the prechamber is hot enough to vaporize and ignite all the fuel and the smoke goes away.

A diesel with good compression will start even without glow plugs, it just takes several extra cranks and WILL smoke a bit when it starts until the cylinders get hot. If your valves are tight enough to lower compression even a little bit, you'll really be cranking a lot to get that engine started.

Once the engine has run and reached operating temperature, it takes several hours for it to cool off enough to need glow plugs again. If it's a couple hours between starts, you can probably skip the preheat cycle altogether and notice no difference. I only glow my engine for the first start of the day or if it's sat for >3 hours. As mentioned above, use Bosch or Beru plugs, they will last the longest and have the fewest complications. The less you use them, the longer they will last in the engine.

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  #17  
Old 11-02-2017, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj67coll View Post
Interesting, I'd not heard of that before. That sounds like an excellent idea. I doubt' we have a bad diesel situation here as the problem occurs exclusively at cold start in the morning. No issues for the rest of the day.

- Peter.
Easy Glow Plug Relay mod: better dash indicator

Read through the post, there were some fine adjustments on resistor value, I think a 68 was the last recommendation I believe, but I can't recall which value I used 100%, I've done it on 2 relays though.
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  #18  
Old 11-03-2017, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Never buy glow plug brands other than Bosch or Beru, which may in time end up with a swollen tip that eventually may fall off. In an engine such as your's, a broken off tip will just wreck the pre-chamber, in engines w/o pre-chamber, it will wreck the piston, valves, head, block.
I second this opinion..
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  #19  
Old 11-03-2017, 04:17 PM
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Well we'll see what we will see. The car goes up on ramps when I get home this evening and I'll see what I can accomplish this weekend.

- Peter.
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  #20  
Old 11-04-2017, 04:22 PM
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I cannot turn the engine at all. I'm using the 22mm socket one the PS pump pulley. Turning that and "helping" it along by pulling on the belt simultaneously I was able to get the No4 exhaust cam lobe into position and adjust it. It was closed tight. But after that I simply cannot rotate the motor at all.

I've removed the glow plugs and that makes no difference. What to do?

By the way. Only the front plug looked relatively clean. The other three are all covered in a layer of black soot. I put them in in March 2015. About 20k miles ago.

- Peter.
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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #21  
Old 11-04-2017, 04:35 PM
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Which is clockwise?

Ok. Standing in front of the car looking towards the rear. Which is the right way to turn the engine? I'm assuming clockwise, ie to the right, which would be the drivers side. I've just tried turning it again but I'm fighting it and before I could get the thing to turn I heard a valve pop and then it bucked back the other way further than it had been, if that makes any sense. I don't want to proceed if there is a chance of screwing something up.

- Peter.
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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #22  
Old 11-04-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
I cannot turn the engine at all. I'm using the 22mm socket one the PS pump pulley. Turning that and "helping" it along by pulling on the belt simultaneously I was able to get the No4 exhaust cam lobe into position and adjust it. It was closed tight. But after that I simply cannot rotate the motor at all.
Don't turn the engine that way. Use the big crank bolt. It is 27mm I believe. Yes, you always turn it clockwise.

Quote:
I've removed the glow plugs and that makes no difference. What to do?
While they are out, you could jumper them to battery power and see if they start to glow. You can also check resistance although I'm not sure why you would pull them unless you were planning to replace them.

Dkr.
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  #23  
Old 11-04-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dkr View Post
While they are out, you could jumper them to battery power and see if they start to glow. You can also check resistance although I'm not sure why you would pull them unless you were planning to replace them.

Dkr.
I removed them because supposedly that releases compression so you aren't fighting compression when trying to turn the motor.

- Peter.
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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #24  
Old 11-04-2017, 04:54 PM
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You should never need to remove the glow plugs to turn the engine.

I re-read the thread. I think the advice was to pull the glow plugs to check the engine compression. You do need to have the glow plugs out one at a time to check compression.

Dkr.
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2017, 05:01 PM
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It wasn't on this thread that I read it. Could have been inaccurate advice. Still. problem right now is valve adjustment. I'll deal with the plugs later. I have a 27mm socket but cannot see any way to get it on the crankshaft bolt without removing the fan shroud. But how do you do that without first removing the fan?

- Peter.
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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #26  
Old 11-04-2017, 05:03 PM
dkr dkr is offline
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Get your fingers on the crank bolt and feel where it is, then put the socket on it blind and then connect your wrench or use the muscle memory to put both on at the same time. It can be a bit of a pain to figure out the first few times.

Dkr.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2017, 06:26 PM
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I use an 1& 1/16" deep impact socket (too damned cheap to spring for the metric equivalent), a 3" extension and a 1/2" ratchet. Yeah, it's kind of a pain to fit it on the bolt but it's very doable. I'll usually fit the socket extension combo and then the ratchet.
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2017, 07:09 PM
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Well. I just got back from the Zone where I picked up that stuff in Metric, so I'm about to get under there and see what I can accomplish.

- Peter.
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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2017, 07:35 PM
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When you're on the 27mm crank bolt, you can turn the engine with a standard ratchet handle if you're pretty strong, otherwise an 18" cheater handle makes life much easier. Not sure about the 616, but on the 603 there's very little room between the fan shroud and the crank pulley. I flex the shroud back a bit with one hand and shove the socket head up in the gap with the other, then turn and position on the crank pulley.
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  #30  
Old 11-04-2017, 08:07 PM
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I've had to remove the fan and shroud. I don't understand what's going on. My previous 240D I had a did this job turning it from the PS pump nut. It was hard work but quite doable. With this thing It's ridiculous. I have a socket wrench on the crankshaft but I've almost had to break my back trying to get it to budge. Since the first valve I did, NO4 exhaust, I've only managed to get the engine turned 90 degrees. So that cam lobe which was in the 12 o'Clock position is now in the 3 o'Clock position. So now NO4 intake is in almost the 12 o'Clock position. I'd say it's a 1 o'Clock. On DG's site he says that it will look like it's in the 1 o'Clock position so maybe this is correct?

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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