240D hard start. Is my motor on it's last legs? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pj67coll · #31 11-04-2017, 09:08 PM

I am a complete idiot, an absolute imbecil and right now lucky to not be dead, or on the way to hospital.

I'll update the thread on what happened later. When I've finished the valve adjustment, taken a shower and relaxed a bit.

- Peter.

Skippy · #32 11-04-2017, 09:48 PM

Did you leave it in gear?

pj67coll · #33 11-04-2017, 11:25 PM

Like Skippy said. I had it in gear. Wouldn't have been as dangerous as it was except I had it up on ramps. I made four ramps out of 2x12's which double the space available under the car. They work great and I can get under the vehicle on a slider with space to spare and oil changes are a breeze.

However. In order to stop the vehicle from rolling backwards off the ramps (the floor of the garage has a very slight downwards slope) and the road is about two feet below the level of the garage, I always have the car in gear when it's up on the ramps, as well as the parking brake on. That's what I did for the oil change last night.

Like a complete idiot I forgot it was still in gear when I started on the valve adjustment so I was battling the clutch and the brake...

I finally realized something was wrong when the car seemed to move forward somewhat when I was trying to do the third valve. I figured that wasn't right so I looked at the ramps and saw the the tires were literally perched on a knife edge. They had already moved over the edge of the ramps and I'd say that probably only about 49 percent of the tire was actually on the wood. If you dangled a plumb line thru the center of the axle it would have been just off the edge of the ramps. The only thing stopping the car from falling off was the brake.

Luckily I never throw anything away and I have lots of assorted off cuts from my woodworking lying around. Iwas able to put these under the front of the wheels and hammer chocks in in front of the tires to stop any further forwards movement. Then I got in the car, put it in neutral, let off the brake and pushed it back to the correct position.

I then made sure I hammered chocks of wood both in the front of the tires and the back and put the brake on very firmly.

And proceeded to complete the valve adjustment which went like a breeze in comparison to before.

Let it be a lesson to everybody working on cars themselves. Safety is paramount and especially if you are doing anything out of the ordinary, double and triple check everything you are doing. Even with the parking brake on if I had continued trying to turn the motor over instead of stopping when I did the car would have fallen off the ramps and pinned me against the shelves I built in the garage. I would either be dead of badly injured.

It was literally that close.

- Peter.

dieselmania · #34 11-04-2017, 11:56 PM

Thanks for the reminder and glad nothing happened, I think most of us have had a few "oh S***" experiences working on our cars. I can still remember my buddy's 1969 Mach 1 slipping off the jack stands and me, being very young, agile and skinny, shooting out from underneath in a split second without a scratch.

If you would, when you are up to it, could you post up pics of the wooden ramps you made? I have been looking at "cribs" made of levels of 2x4 and 2x6 lumber that nest inside each other that people have made to hold the car at various heights safely. I am still trying to decide what to use when I drop my tranny this winter.

PS I can't understand how your motor didn't just stall unless the clutch is slipping bad.

dkr · #35 11-05-2017, 12:09 AM

These things do happen. I chopped off the tip of my middle finger this year when I dropped my trailer tongue on it. I did have to go to the ER and get surgery. Glad to hear you are ok. One habit I have picked up when lifting the car is to try and rock it from side to side or front to back to get it to slip before you get under it.

Dkr.

pj67coll · #36 11-05-2017, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselmania

If you would, when you are up to it, could you post up pics of the wooden ramps you made? I have been looking at "cribs" made of levels of 2x4 and 2x6 lumber that nest inside each other that people have made to hold the car at various heights safely. I am still trying to decide what to use when I drop my tranny this winter.

I'll try. This solution is real simple, but sometimes simple is best.

Quote:

PS I can't understand how your motor didn't just stall unless the clutch is slipping bad.

Yeah. Me either. Probably have clutch wear in there I'm sure. Though I don't seem to have any trouble when driving.

- Peter.

BillGrissom · #37 11-05-2017, 11:36 AM

Good you found the "won't turn over" issue. The clutch switch protects you when using the starter, but not for wrenching. If you chock the rear wheels when on ramps, you are pretty safe. When I jack up a car and remove a wheel, I always store it under the frame rail w/ a board across, so if the jack stand fails when I am underneath, at least I won't get crushed any thinner than the wheel width. On both my 300D's, I always use the power steering pulley "nut" to turn over the engine. Isn't that why they put it there? Nice and fat and right on top. Before that, I did the "socket on crank bolt" thing, but takes time and get grubby working it in past the fan shroud and the socket would keep falling off the bolt. No time for that mess.

pj67coll · #38 11-05-2017, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

On both my 300D's, I always use the power steering pulley "nut" to turn over the engine. Isn't that why they put it there? Nice and fat and right on top. Before that, I did the "socket on crank bolt" thing, but takes time and get grubby working it in past the fan shroud and the socket would keep falling off the bolt. No time for that mess.

Yes, it was a real pain to get to the crankshaft nut. But on a positive side after removing the fan and shroud things are a heck of a lot easier working at the front. And it was probably fortuitous that I did so as well because three of the four fan bolts were so loose I don't think they were actually holding it at all. Only one needed a socket on it to break it loose. Two I could do with my fingers and one was sort of in between. So they shall be put back on properly when I get to re-assemble the whole mess.

I will leave the shroud off for a while as it's damaged and I may look to replace it. And I'll be doing another valve adjustment within the next 500 miles or so because I have no record of one having been done in the last decade and over 100K miles so hopefully this will result in some significant amount of carbon/crud etc being burned off.

I'm going to be working on the glow plug issues today. And I'm wondering wether or not since I'm "in there" it might be a good idea to pull the injectors and see what sort of state they are in.

- Peter.

dkr · #39 11-05-2017, 11:58 AM

The injectors have a one time use washer at the bottom that seals the connection, so unless you have additional washers you may create some leaks.

The only thing that matters with the injectors is their pop pressure which you need special tools to test and cannot visually ID. They need to be balanced within 50 psi of each other so I wouldn't pull them until you are ready to potentially rebuild them.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to ream the glow plug holes as that can increase the longevity of your plugs.

Dkr.

barry12345 · #40 11-05-2017, 12:17 PM

The older you get the more attention you generally pay to the safer aspects of doing things it seems. At least in my experience. Call it what you may but in my opinion both double checking and mentally examining things at the slightest sensation of feeling uncomfortable. Is to me better than just proceeding.

I really do not think it is paranoia. Odd though in a way as the bulk of your life is well behind you. This week I have been working on staging 25 feet up. Engineered a safety railing. Much of my earlier life I would not have done so or given it any thought. In a way I suppose you are calculating that you might not be what you once where.

Getting under cars when you elevate them should get you paying real attention. For decades I have doubled up on support systems. Call me a Kentucky fried chicken. But I never became a pressed duck.

Generally you have little chance at all if the car comes down on you. In my climate as a result of fastenings rusting. It takes real torque to get things moving. Ramps made of 2x12s are sound yet few install rubber pads on the bottom. The coefficient of friction between wood and concrete is weak. I have never calculated the required height where there should be a way to attach lateral supports either.

Or if you see yourself as having a lot of years ahead and the room. Welding up one of those drive on devices that tilt is probably a good safe way to get more elevation safely.

A lot of members like myself scrounged in our earlier days. There is still a lot of cheap usable steel around to design and build one. There are even plans out there. Technically you could even put wheels and a hitch on it and rent it out.

Have a professional take a look at your welds if not well experienced though. Do not build it with a toy welder either. A good stick welder is easy to find cheap. If you do not own a medium to heavy mig welder. A real hoist is really impractical for many to own. A tilting ramp should put you three to three and a half feet up in the air safely.

For those without a lot of money changing peoples oil can build up a real client base alone. People are getting really concerned with the quick oil change franchises. They now have a really bad reputation in general. Also the customers old used oil can be used to heat a garage. Just make sure you also do that in a safe fashion.

pj67coll · #41 11-06-2017, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkr

The injectors have a one time use washer at the bottom that seals the connection, so unless you have additional washers you may create some leaks.

The only thing that matters with the injectors is their pop pressure which you need special tools to test and cannot visually ID. They need to be balanced within 50 psi of each other so I wouldn't pull them until you are ready to potentially rebuild them.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to ream the glow plug holes as that can increase the longevity of your plugs.

Dkr.

I'll be reaming the GP holes again before I put them back in. May wind up buying a set of new ones again depending on what I find when they are tested. The car will be out of commission till at least next weekend as I'll not have the time to work on it after hours this week. So time to consider my next options. I'll decide what to do about the fuel injectors after I get the glow plug situation sorted out. I will have to buy a tester if I decide to pull the injectors.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #42 11-10-2017, 11:55 AM

March of 2015 I replaced the plugs that were in the car because the glow plug light wasn't working. There were three Bosch and one Monark in the car at the tinme. I replaced them with four Monarks. Today I tested all eight plugs by hooking them up to the battery with battery cables I find that I have four dead Monarks and one dead Bosch. I could re-use three of the Bosch that are still glowing and another plug at the auto parts store just to get it back on the road by Monday while I order a new set of Bosch or Beru. It would appear Monark are pretty much useless.

- Peter.

barry12345 · #43 11-10-2017, 01:11 PM

Depending on a lot of factors. Especially just how your used glow plugs glow under test. . With another factor being the state of your wallet. You might get by pretty easy by using the current good brand of glow plugs plus the one new one quite well.

Usually we change them as a set assuming some may be on their last legs. Because one died. It is so easy to locate a bad glow plug and change it on these older engines. Same as it was on Volkswagons years ago.

I usually just took the risk and never had any reason to look back.. Depends on just how they glow under test individually though when removed from the engine.

The most heat on the pencil plug type should be out near the end of the element. On the loop plugs if the loop glows the same as a new loop end plug I consider it good to go. Plus since you will have one new plug you have a direct comparison to relate to.

The really off brand glow plugs never really achieved any signifigant portion of the replacement market. Word of mouth and personal experience by people was just too negative.

I actually at one time could buy the off brands new. For a dollar a glow plug at automotive flea markets. Even this did not entice me to buy any other than a spare to keep in each diesel car. . For some reason many diesel engines just do not want to start in cold weather with just one glow plug out. Many factors can impact the practical lifespan of a glow plug as well.

When testing a loop type plug individually remember it is a very low voltage plug to start with. It is also reasonably important for the plug to test resistant wise somewhat comparable to the new one.

vwnate1 · #44 11-10-2017, 11:23 PM

Whew ! glad you didn't get crushed .

I was lucky and found a pair of metal ramps on trash day before the scrap metal guy did .

They always slide on the concrete when I try driving up them so I lift one side of the car at a time & slide them into place .

I've gotten decent life (years, over 40,000 miles) out of Monarch glow plugs but will try Bosch or Beru the next time I need a set .

pj67coll · #45 11-11-2017, 09:45 PM

Well I put the four new Bosh plugs in today. Tested my glow cycle and the glow plug light comes on as normal. Yay!

So tomorrow I think I'll change out the fuel filters and then see about putting it all back together so I can get on the road again Monday. I'll see about fiddling around with the fuel injectors in the near future, but not till I have a tester.

- Peter.