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  #1  
Old 11-27-2017, 04:14 PM
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Civility Please, Ladies And Gents: ZDDP (zinc/phosphate) additives in om603

OK…

As a relative newbie to the diesel world, I just recently learned that modern diesel oil’s do not have zinc in them, or the amount of zinc in the formulation has been greatly reduced to account for new emission standards and equipment.

With the OM603 engine, would it be wise to use a zinc additive? I have tried to search the forums and all I have found is conflicting information As well as downright bullying. So I ask here… Will a ZDDP additive help to protect my engine?

Please keep it civil, folks. I don’t want this thread to wind up like the “verbal disagreement” thread I’ve been reading. 🤦🏻*♂️


Chris Dragotta
Benson, NC
1992 300D (Daily Driver)
1991 300D (The Backup)
1987?300SDL (The Parts Car)

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  #2  
Old 11-27-2017, 04:32 PM
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I'll preface this by saying I am NOT an oil expert...

Disclaimer out of the way - what I've been able to ascertain is that the ZDDP has been removed or reduced to comply with emissions requirements with vehicles using catalytic converters and DPF. Supposedly the better oils lubricate fine without the ZDDP. Just about anything out there today will lubricate better than the oil that was around when the car was designed, so I'd think you'd be fine saving your money. I don't run a ZDDP additive in the SDL and I'm not losing sleep. I run Rotella T6 currently.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2017, 05:05 PM
Gene
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Buffalo NY
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there's "wear" and there's shear

as above, no engineer or chemist here yet my penny's worth...

I *need* to run an high "anti-wear additive oil in my Chevelle, old school solid flat tappet camshaft that spins to 7500+ rpms. non-roller.

Adding ZDDP to oil, even professionally mixed, not the stratified half-arsed mixed crap we get by using additives, seems to affect, adversely, another quality of oil, shear psi.

Many folks running old muscle cars use diesel oils as I did,. The zinc/phosphorus,,etc content is high enough. The camshafts in our diesels , although i dont know the specs, dont need high pressure valve springs to do their work at the modest rpms/ valve lifts these engines live at.

Adding ZDDP to the oil would adversely affect the other property of these diesel oils, shear psi, which I think is marginal in most diesel oils ( 70,000 psi or so) for a well running old school 22.5:1 compression engine.

Putting more wear additive in, might make the oil WORSE in overall performance.

Not being an expert, it could be the increased detergents in diesel oil that give it its generally low shear psi ratings. > ? Yet, its is KNOWn that adding ZDDP reduces these ratingss ever more.

No need to spend money and make the oil worse for the engine.
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:32 PM
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I just use the Napa 15/40 fleet oil and change it often. Stock up when it goes on sale.
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:30 PM
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Agree that modern oils have reduced ZDDP but they still have enough to satisfy our old diesel engines. My choice is AMSOIL but as you know oil is a religious choice.

BTW because of older engines liking the taste of ZDDP I also ran diesel oil in my old 560SL with the M119 engine. Seemed to love it.
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2017, 09:37 PM
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Thanks for the fast responses, folks. Looks like I’ll stick with the Delo! Thanks again!


Chris Dragotta
Benson, NC
1992 300D (Daily Driver)
1991 300D (The Backup)
1987?300SDL (The Parts Car)
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2017, 01:58 PM
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I've used Amsoil 15W40 marine diesel oil for over twenty years in the 617. I'm in the process of modifying an oil flter housing to feed an Amsoil Bypass Oil Filtration system. Once that is in place, I figure this car will be good for a million miles or so.....

I still use the old Amsoil foam style air filters; have for years with no problems. Unfortunatley, Amsoil too them out of production so when these go, I'll be forced to go back to paper air filters. IMHO, dirt flies straight through paper.......
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2017, 02:15 PM
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I like and use Molybdenum Disulfide

Molybdenum Disulfide
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2017, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdragotta View Post
Thanks for the fast responses, folks. Looks like I’ll stick with the Delo! Thanks again!
Delo LE (Low Emission) is not the same as regular Delo
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2017, 06:30 PM
#TRUMP2020
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdragotta View Post
As a relative newbie to the diesel world, I just recently learned that modern diesel oil’s do not have zinc in them, or the amount of zinc in the formulation has been greatly reduced to account for new emission standards and equipment.
Rather than internet hearsay, you can get the data you're after for very little cost. Look up blackstone-labs.com They do oil analysis, you send them in a sample, they email you a result showing you exactly what is or isn't in the oil. Its inexpensive for this service. The typical use case for such an analysis is used oil from your engine, to help tune your oil change interval and also assess the health of your engine. But you can also send them a sample of brand new oil, and then you'll find out precisely how much zinc and other additives the oil contains.

Personally, I use Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5w40 in all my diesels. It's formulated specifically for older diesels (i.e. without particulate filter) and has the full ZDDP package. It also carries MB 229.5 certification. I order mine from id parts dot com for around $36 for a 5 liter.
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  #11  
Old 11-30-2017, 10:36 AM
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Many classic car owners w/ gas engines (i.e. flat-tappet lifters) use CJ-rated "diesel" oil mainly to get the higher zinc to protect the camshaft. CJ oils also have more detergents to suspend carbon. I think "more zinc" is the main difference in the marketed "high mileage" oils for gas engines too. Perhaps a few quarts of that would help, but don't use it solely since probably not enough detergents for a diesel.
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torsionbar View Post
Rather than internet hearsay, you can get the data you're after for very little cost. Look up blackstone-labs.com They do oil analysis, you send them in a sample, they email you a result showing you exactly what is or isn't in the oil. Its inexpensive for this service. The typical use case for such an analysis is used oil from your engine, to help tune your oil change interval and also assess the health of your engine. But you can also send them a sample of brand new oil, and then you'll find out precisely how much zinc and other additives the oil contains.

Personally, I use Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5w40 in all my diesels. It's formulated specifically for older diesels (i.e. without particulate filter) and has the full ZDDP package. It also carries MB 229.5 certification. I order mine from id parts dot com for around $36 for a 5 liter.


I was wondering about going with a 5w-40 instead of 15w-40. Maybe I’ll give the Liqu Moly a shot.


Chris Dragotta
Benson, NC
1992 300D (Daily Driver)
1991 300D (The Backup)
1987?300SDL (The Parts Car)

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