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  #46  
Old 03-20-2018, 08:35 PM
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wow..... I'm at a loss of words after all the fantastic work you've put into her.. I hope somone on the forum picks it up...

I do however encourage you to reconsider selling the w116. You can continue to drive it even if a few plastic\rubber things wear out, it doesn't have to be perfect. The 617 will continue to get you where you need to go long after everything else had broken around it. I seem to remember you were almost at this point a while ago and chose not to sell it...

Maybe try selling the wagon first, maybe it will net you more than you think and you'll be able to keep the w116.
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2003 Volvo V70 5 Speed
1997 E290 Turbo Diesel Wagon -traded for above, an amazingly comfortable car to drive, great drivetrain, but the rust, oh my god the rust
1992 BMW 525i -traded in
1990 Silver 300TE -Sold Loved the wagon, hated the M103
1985 Grey 380SE Diesel Conversion, 2.47 rear end, ABS -Sold, really should have kept this one
1979 Silver 300D "The Silver Slug" -Sold
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  #47  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:38 PM
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I ordered some compressor fittings as the ones I had ordered years ago didn't seem to be angled correctly. I ordered a #8 45 degree and a #10 180 degree, both without service ports because there isn't enough room at the back of the compressor for that to be a suitable location. I ordered a couple service ports that I will put inline with the hoses. I also ordered several feet of #8 and #10 barrier hose I so I can make my own hoses and will then have them crimped at a shop.

I started trying to remove the center console. It's a difficult task, anyway, but it seemed really stuck even though I thought I had all of the screws removed. I also removed the front seatbelt guides but it was still not budging. The plastic braces of the console were already broken and the parts were never able to be attached to it securely, and it started to rip. Finally, in frustration, I tore the console to shreds. It turns out there were two screws still holding in the console at the rear. Oh, well. I felt really upset about destroying the center console as it's not like you can just buy spare interior parts for these cars. Good luck finding a used brown center console (and brown dashes in good condition are completely impossible to find).


I do have a spare brown console that I removed from a car I parted out. The plastic braces are in good condition, but the vinyl is cracked all over. It will have to do. I ended up destroying the corner of the dashboard when I was pulling it out. I really despise W116 interiors. I also gave the glovebox door a few punches because it kept popping open when I was trying to loosen the zip ties for the wires that were attached along the bottom of the dashboard.

I look at the automatic climate control and can't believe anyone would make something so complicated.


I removed the heater box. I'm going to do what I can to simplify the system. I pulled out the manual system I have and it turns out the heater box is cracked and broken. Rabbits chewed up much of the wire harness and cables. Even the manual system seems overly complicated with vacuum controls all over. I might end up ditching the Mercedes climate control entirely and make something using universal controls and wiring.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 346,000+ Miles

Last edited by Squiggle Dog; 05-01-2018 at 01:21 PM.
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  #48  
Old 05-01-2018, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
Even the manual system seems overly complicated with vacuum controls all over.
What are the vacuum controls for on the manual system?

- Peter.
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81 240D stick. 316000 miles at purchase. 340000 now
2000 GMC Sonoma
Formerly...
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1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles. Deceased Jan 08
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #49  
Old 05-01-2018, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj67coll View Post
What are the vacuum controls for on the manual system?

- Peter.
There is a vacuum switch at the outer lever on the driver side, and another vacuum switch at the outer lever on the passenger side. There is a vacuum line running between the two, one going to them from the vacuum supply tank, and then one going from them to a vacuum pod on the heater valve on the firewall.

Then there is a vacuum switch at the air conditioning temperature switch, which activates a vacuum pod on the blower motor housing, which opens and closes the recirculating air flap.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 346,000+ Miles
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  #50  
Old 05-01-2018, 03:07 PM
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Reading through this thread makes me want to get out and work on and drive my W123 more!
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  #51  
Old 05-01-2018, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
There is a vacuum switch at the outer lever on the driver side, and another vacuum switch at the outer lever on the passenger side. There is a vacuum line running between the two, one going to them from the vacuum supply tank, and then one going from them to a vacuum pod on the heater valve on the firewall.

Then there is a vacuum switch at the air conditioning temperature switch, which activates a vacuum pod on the blower motor housing, which opens and closes the recirculating air flap.
So the heater valve on the firewall is opened and closed by vacuum rather than a physical cable as on the 123? Interesting. Same for the A/C recirc. Wonder why they used vacuum on the manual system and not on the 123?

- Peter.
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81 240D stick. 316000 miles at purchase. 340000 now
2000 GMC Sonoma
Formerly...
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles. Deceased Jan 08
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #52  
Old 05-01-2018, 09:16 PM
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I believe even the 240D manual system had 1 vacuum pod in it.... still, if theres only the vacuum valve and the recirc. pod, thats not really so bad..
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2003 Volvo V70 5 Speed
1997 E290 Turbo Diesel Wagon -traded for above, an amazingly comfortable car to drive, great drivetrain, but the rust, oh my god the rust
1992 BMW 525i -traded in
1990 Silver 300TE -Sold Loved the wagon, hated the M103
1985 Grey 380SE Diesel Conversion, 2.47 rear end, ABS -Sold, really should have kept this one
1979 Silver 300D "The Silver Slug" -Sold
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  #53  
Old 05-02-2018, 12:15 AM
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Yeah, the heater valve on the firewall is opened by vacuum, as is the recirculating air flap on the heater box. I was thinking about making them cable operated, but it would probably be a lot of extra work. Maybe parts from a W123 could be used.
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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 346,000+ Miles
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  #54  
Old 05-02-2018, 12:23 AM
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I may have a good console in my 116 parts car. I will look and see if it is still good.....Rich
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  #55  
Old 05-02-2018, 12:42 AM
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I was hoping that I could simply use some of the wires on the original harness, or could at least tap into them. But, the wire harnesses between manual and automatic climate control are vastly different. The manual system is overall wired directly to the fuse box, while the automatic system uses many smaller gauge wires that go between several different locations. So, I decided the only way to do it probably is to replace one wire at a time.

I spent hours carefully cutting off the wrapping on the wire harness so that each individual wire is accessible. I then started removing the wires that aren't needed. I removed the power window and power sunroof wires since I converted them to manually operated ones for increased reliability. The less wiring I have in the car, the better.




After I have all necessary wires installed and accounted for, all the extra wiring will be removed so it's not complicating things. When that's done, I'll re-wrap the wires with new cloth tape. I'm trying to undo a lot of the over-engineering so the car is more reliable, practical, and simple to repair. There were so many zip ties and getting any access to where the wire harness goes through the firewall was SO difficult. It's fortunate that the two 8mm nuts at the bottom of the fuse box and wire harness support were already loose, because they were almost inaccessible. I had to use a very small ratchet for one, and a flatblade screwdriver with a socket on the end for the other.
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Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 15 years ago. https://tryveg.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 346,000+ Miles
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  #56  
Old 05-03-2018, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
I may have a good console in my 116 parts car. I will look and see if it is still good.....Rich
Let me know what you find. Thanks.
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DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 346,000+ Miles
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  #57  
Old 05-04-2018, 04:15 AM
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I removed most of the automatic climate control parts. It was satisfying.


I have most of the wires for the manual system installed as well.


Even though the wire harnesses are very different between automatic and manual, there are a few wires that are routed the same and are even the same colors, however, the manual system calls for wire gauges about twice the size that the automatic system uses (the manual system uses a few heavy gauge wires that are wired directly while the automatic system uses many light gauge wires that jump all over the place). I replaced the light gauge wires with the heavier ones so I don't burn down my car. In areas like around the conditioning relay where space was tight, I was able to tie the new wires to the old ones after I cut an end off and was able to pull them through the harness tubing. In the picture below, the ws/sw colored automatic climate control wire is a 1,5mm˛. The one used in the manual climate control is a ws/sw 2,5mm˛; nearly twice as thick.


To make things more challenging, the wiring diagrams in the factory service manual are not entirely correct. For example, the 1979/80 116.120 300SD USA diagram shows a vt color 4mm˛ wire going from the alternator junction block to the #1 terminal on the air conditioning relay. However, in both my car and a spare 1979 300SD wire harness I have, the 4mm˛ vt wire goes from the alternator junction block to the neutral safety switch. No wire actually connects to the #1 terminal of the air conditioning relay. However, on the wire harness I have from a 1974? 450SE that had manual climate control, it had a 2,5mm˛ vt wire going from the alternator junction block to the #1 position of the air conditioning relay, and then a smaller wire connecting from it to an ignition relay (which the diesels don't have). I am guessing the large purple wire was not necessary on the diesel cars and must have been done away with after the diagram was written.

This is really a lot of work and very technical. It would be very easy to get something wrong. I do not recommend this to the average person. I don't think many people in the world would be motivated enough to see it through, anyway. If I were to do the work for someone, I think I'd have to charge thousands of dollars to be worth the labor. These complicated climate control systems are certainly a curse for these cars and one of the main reasons they get junked.

One problem I have is that the wire harness from the manual climate control car was cut at where the wires from the blower switch connect to the blower motor resistor plug. I'm hoping they are long enough that I can solder on new ends, but I might have to splice wires on the ends so they'll reach (which I'm not happy about as I wanted to do this without any splicing, and all wiring being 100% correct including the colors).
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Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 15 years ago. https://tryveg.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 346,000+ Miles
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  #58  
Old 05-04-2018, 09:02 AM
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Thumbs up

5.4.18

I just noticed this thread and subscribed, I want to read it entirely, time to go before traffic gets too bad .
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  #59  
Old 05-05-2018, 12:58 PM
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This is remarkable. If it were my car at this point I'd seriously consider trying to convert at least the heater valve to manual. I have seen this done on a 77 300D which had the same "evil servo" system as your vehicle and it can be done.

The owner of that car had placed the gadget he installed up under the dash where you had to fish around for it by feel. But with a bit of thought I'm sure something could be fabricated to make the lever more accessible. Thing is it's something you'd only need to open one or two days per year. This is Phoenix after all and a heater is the single most useless piece of equipment wasting space in a car.

As for the recirculation flap. Can't comment on that one, sorry. Must say you've done an incredible job so far.

- Peter.
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81 240D stick. 316000 miles at purchase. 340000 now
2000 GMC Sonoma
Formerly...
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles. Deceased Jan 08
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S
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  #60  
Old 05-06-2018, 09:44 PM
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I'm probably going to leave the W116 manual climate control as designed by Mercedes. At least the vacuum parts are minimal. I don't think there would be an easy way to add a cable to the sliders to operate the heater valve, and I don't want to add more parts to the the system.
__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 15 years ago. https://tryveg.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 346,000+ Miles
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