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  #46  
Old 01-20-2018, 11:00 AM
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kraft did show me the old strainer, i'll see if i can check though, might be pretty dirty from the snow and salt.

techron was added to the fuel, but of course now I am not convinced it was diesel techron.

I did not link to my original post because this one i started mostly to get pricing feedback, at that time we had determined the valve job was the next step if I were to take any more steps, but here it is in case anybody wants to read through the history:
post valve adjustment clicking

i ordered a Topsider oil change pump, but it won't be here for 10 days or so probably.
i hope I can find a new shop,

thanks
__________________
1985 w123 300D turbo
jan 2018 - ~176,000 miles.
nov 2015 - mar 2017 running tri-state biodiesel, commercially made from restaurant waste veggie oil
looking to start a biodiesel buying club in nyc, brooklyn, queens.
just need somewhere to stash a 100+ gallon drum or tank.
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  #47  
Old 01-20-2018, 11:06 AM
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Location: central Texas
Posts: 17,277
Funola, Diesel300 made a broad and absolute statement ''''Also of worthy note: If you're really interested in saving money, skip the "seal rejuvenator". It's snake oil. ''''
Which invited discussion... I am sorry it offended your sense of what the thread should include and not....
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  #48  
Old 01-20-2018, 11:16 AM
Diseasel300's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
His latest disclosure is: For 2 years, trusted shop has been putting in castrol 10w-40 high mileage standard oil, not a “diesel” oil.

I have no experience with such practice. Could running a gasoline rated oil for 2 years result in his engine burning oil?

Where was the Techron placed during the oil change? Hopefully not in the oil.
Diesel rated oils have a different formulation to help suspend soot. Gasoline engines make very little soot in comparison and have very little of that additive package as a result. If he's been running gasoline rated oil for 2 years and tried getting away with 4-5K OCI's you bet that could cause problems from soot depositing issues. Soot is carbon, carbon is abrasive. If the cylinder walls are scored, or if the rings are stuck in their grooves from soot/varnish accumulation, you can expect oil burning.

The Techron was probably dumped in the fuel. There is a diesel formulation of Techron out there, it comes in a jug with a green label. Having used it once in my own car, I noticed no difference. Didn't help quiet down a bad batch of fuel either, so I've stuck with Power Services as my "go-to" snakeoil additive. It seems to help quiet the "tractoriness" when I get screwed with crap fuel.
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 64K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 186K
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
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  #49  
Old 01-20-2018, 11:23 AM
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Our Diesels engines also have a lot more force applied to the crank rod throws and rod ends...and crank journals ..... gasoline engine oils typically do not have the shear force protection our oils do. The difference between 10 to one and 20 to one compression is considerable...
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  #50  
Old 01-20-2018, 05:29 PM
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for what it's worth, not much i'm sure, I was sticking to 3500 mile intervals
__________________
1985 w123 300D turbo
jan 2018 - ~176,000 miles.
nov 2015 - mar 2017 running tri-state biodiesel, commercially made from restaurant waste veggie oil
looking to start a biodiesel buying club in nyc, brooklyn, queens.
just need somewhere to stash a 100+ gallon drum or tank.
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  #51  
Old 01-21-2018, 01:12 PM
vwnate1's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sunny So. Cal. !
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Thumbs up This 'N That

#1 : Those who are able to learn, often do so by paying attention to topic drift .

I certainly do ! and I'm old and supposedly a Journeyman Mechanic yet I'm still learning and eager to do so, not whine and b*tch when I don't understand a thing .

Back to oils : I was buying oil for my Diesels yesterday and noticed that all the Diesel rated oils had CJ / CE ratings, none of the gasoline rated oils did .

DO NOT EVER use a topsider or other vacuum oil change device ! . the entire point of good quality detergent oils is to keep the wear particles in suspension so they flow out the sump when you remove the drain plug .

All you needs do is ask them to use CE/CJ rated oils and show you the empty containers, conversely you can sometimes supply the oil used, this depends on the shop in question .

Wally Mart etc. all sell Diesel rated oils in quarts, gallon and five quart jugs *much* cheaper than anyone else . they usually have a separate (smaller) shelf area for the Diesel rated oils .

As far as brands, yes some are better than others but _any_ modern Diesel rated oil is orders of magnitude better than the Dino based oils your engine was designed for 40 + years ago .

My self I prefer fully synthetic oils but then I put on more miles than do most and they're hard miles to boot . just buy some brand you know and trust, make sure is clearly says DIESEL ENGINES on the label and don't worry further .

Your willingness to stick to 3,500 mile intervals *is* worth a lot, you're betting with your wallet and over time you'll win .
__________________
-Nate
1982 240D creampuff 370,000 miles
1978 300CD back from the dead&1980 300CD ~ SOLD
1984 300CD KEEPER ! 428,XXX miles
1984 Euro 300TD Fully optioned SWMBO's
1974 350SLC 4 speed stickshift SOLD & missed
Krazy Kommie Ural Motos (3)
BMW Moto R60/6 Barn Find, 8,000miles
1959 VW #113 Deuxe Beetle, 36hp engine, stock
Junk, Rust
Arthritis, Crushed Spine,Broken Neck&Back
Memories &Peace Of Mind
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  #52  
Old 01-21-2018, 01:19 PM
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thanks, how would draining oil out the top affect whether or not particles are removed with the oil? it seems like it sucks everything up like a straw in a cup.

to clarify, i meant i was sticking with 3,500 miles while i unknowingly have gasoline rated oil. when i thought it was diesel standard oil, i was going to wait until 4,500 as diseasel300 mentioned, but i have not actually waited that long yet.
__________________
1985 w123 300D turbo
jan 2018 - ~176,000 miles.
nov 2015 - mar 2017 running tri-state biodiesel, commercially made from restaurant waste veggie oil
looking to start a biodiesel buying club in nyc, brooklyn, queens.
just need somewhere to stash a 100+ gallon drum or tank.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-21-2018, 01:29 PM
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Location: Texas Hill Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenying View Post
thanks, how would draining oil out the top affect whether or not particles are removed with the oil? it seems like it sucks everything up like a straw in a cup.

to clarify, i meant i was sticking with 3,500 miles while i unknowingly have gasoline rated oil. when i thought it was diesel standard oil, i was going to wait until 4,500 as diseasel300 mentioned, but i have not actually waited that long yet.
The topsider oil change is another personal preference thing, I'm in the camp that thinks it's a waste of time.

The point of draining the oil from the engine is to change as much as possible and to change it when at operating temperature. When you change it by draining from the drain plug, the oil drains very quickly and will completely empty the pan taking a large amount of sludge and bits in the bottom of the pan with it. Using a topsider, the draining process is slower, you'll still have the muck layer left in the bottom of the pan, and there's still a bit of oil left in the pan that the hose couldn't pick up. It's your engine, you do with it what you want. The drain plug is there for a reason.

I've often seen it suggested to run gasoline rated oils in a diesel engine for no more than 1000 miles, preferably less due to the soot loading issues. Is there any merit? Who knows, but it certainly seems plausible. Given that you KNOW you have gasoline oil in your car, I'd be changing it sooner rather than later. A 2.5 gallon jug of Rotella is about $30 at Wal-mart. Synthetic is a bit more.
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 64K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 186K
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
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  #54  
Old 01-21-2018, 01:59 PM
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hmm, reviews have said it does get everything out... and if it's still warm at the beginning and sucking from the bottom...

i thought i'd wait a week til i get the topsider, i only drive it a couple times mid week, but maybe i'll just get it changed sooner, i have a filter and o ring but not the filter housing stem o rings
__________________
1985 w123 300D turbo
jan 2018 - ~176,000 miles.
nov 2015 - mar 2017 running tri-state biodiesel, commercially made from restaurant waste veggie oil
looking to start a biodiesel buying club in nyc, brooklyn, queens.
just need somewhere to stash a 100+ gallon drum or tank.
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  #55  
Old 01-21-2018, 02:07 PM
vwnate1's Avatar
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Location: Sunny So. Cal. !
Posts: 3,295
Post Oil Changes

What he said .

Unlike most, I have the experience of disassembling thousands of engines over my career most had varying amounts of accumulated sludge, even ones that had fairly frequent oil changes .

The two most important things to remember and do are :

HOT ~ do it as close to blistering your fingers as you can stand .

Use the drain plug ! .

Right now I am finally getting back to working and yesterday I put a 1954 VW Engine in the stand to make it run again see if it's any good .

In the cylinder heads everything was pretty clean, when I removed the sump's oil screen it had quite a bit of accumulated sludge from paraffin based oils .

I spent over and hour scraping the accumulated sludge out because I know from experience that fresh detergent oil in an old engine can easily loosen up the sludge and invariably it makes a been line to the connecting rod bearings and occasionally causes failures .

As mentioned : it's your car and money but if you care about it as it appears you do, follow the basic common sense rules and be suspicious of any and all short cuts .

In _every_ shop I've ever worked in, even the Dealers, I was he _only_ one who didn't wait to let the engine cool down before draining the oil .

I have lots of old engines I dig out of junkyards, barns, fields etc. and none are dirty inside because I'm always sure to do regular, HOT oil and filter changes .
__________________
-Nate
1982 240D creampuff 370,000 miles
1978 300CD back from the dead&1980 300CD ~ SOLD
1984 300CD KEEPER ! 428,XXX miles
1984 Euro 300TD Fully optioned SWMBO's
1974 350SLC 4 speed stickshift SOLD & missed
Krazy Kommie Ural Motos (3)
BMW Moto R60/6 Barn Find, 8,000miles
1959 VW #113 Deuxe Beetle, 36hp engine, stock
Junk, Rust
Arthritis, Crushed Spine,Broken Neck&Back
Memories &Peace Of Mind
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  #56  
Old 01-21-2018, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenying View Post
hmm, reviews have said it does get everything out... and if it's still warm at the beginning and sucking from the bottom...

i thought i'd wait a week til i get the topsider, i only drive it a couple times mid week, but maybe i'll just get it changed sooner, i have a filter and o ring but not the filter housing stem o rings
Prove it to yourself. Use the topsider, then go pull the drain plug and see what comes out. If it's dry, I'll eat my hat. The nastiest part of the oil is always the bit that keeps trickling out after the bulk of the oil has drained. The topsider CANNOT remove that part of the oil fill, and that's the nasty part you REALLY want removed during the change. Gravity does the work for you, when hot, that stuff becomes mobile and will flow towards the drain plug.

The stem O-rings aren't that critical. If you aren't having oil pressure problems when cold starting, you can likely reuse them. I generally change mine every 3rd or 4th oil change just on principle.

Another tip - Remove the old filter before changing the oil. It'll let all the oil and sludge from the filter tower flow back into the pan for draining with the rest of the oil. It'll let the stem cool down so you can work with it, and it'll let you reassemble the filter tower while the block is draining, saving you a bit of time.
__________________
'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 64K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 186K
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
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  #57  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:05 PM
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Diesel Dandy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sunny So. Cal. !
Posts: 3,295
Talking Paid For Reviews

Oh, yeah ~ I always trust manufacturer supplied reviews of worthless products .

Anyways, if you're worried about the two small O-Rings on the center oil filter stud, they're 6 & MM, use Viton or something, not regular O-Rings from Harbor Freight ! .

Your local M- Dealer or Tom at The Classic Center will have the correct ones , in 423,000 + miles I've only needed to change them once .

Don't make this a mountain when it's a molehill .
__________________
-Nate
1982 240D creampuff 370,000 miles
1978 300CD back from the dead&1980 300CD ~ SOLD
1984 300CD KEEPER ! 428,XXX miles
1984 Euro 300TD Fully optioned SWMBO's
1974 350SLC 4 speed stickshift SOLD & missed
Krazy Kommie Ural Motos (3)
BMW Moto R60/6 Barn Find, 8,000miles
1959 VW #113 Deuxe Beetle, 36hp engine, stock
Junk, Rust
Arthritis, Crushed Spine,Broken Neck&Back
Memories &Peace Of Mind
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  #58  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:21 PM
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Posts: 223
ok thanks.
viton o ring for stem? dealer will have?
__________________
1985 w123 300D turbo
jan 2018 - ~176,000 miles.
nov 2015 - mar 2017 running tri-state biodiesel, commercially made from restaurant waste veggie oil
looking to start a biodiesel buying club in nyc, brooklyn, queens.
just need somewhere to stash a 100+ gallon drum or tank.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:41 PM
vwnate1's Avatar
Diesel Dandy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sunny So. Cal. !
Posts: 3,295
Thumbs up The BEST Parts

Yes, you'll have to show them you're registration because the boob behind the parts counter won't know anything W123 or OM616/617 related .

They'll also have to order it in, why I gave you the proper size and no, YOU SHOULD NOT JUST USE TWO OF ONE SIZE like 'everyone else does' .

If you have not yet discovered The Mercedes Classic Center you need to, there's one Down East and another in Irvine, Ca. ~ I use them because :

The always have the correct part that not only fits, it works like it should .

Also, they'll mail it to you making it the single easiest way to get parts, said parts being well made and the RIGHT ONES, often un available anywhere else .
__________________
-Nate
1982 240D creampuff 370,000 miles
1978 300CD back from the dead&1980 300CD ~ SOLD
1984 300CD KEEPER ! 428,XXX miles
1984 Euro 300TD Fully optioned SWMBO's
1974 350SLC 4 speed stickshift SOLD & missed
Krazy Kommie Ural Motos (3)
BMW Moto R60/6 Barn Find, 8,000miles
1959 VW #113 Deuxe Beetle, 36hp engine, stock
Junk, Rust
Arthritis, Crushed Spine,Broken Neck&Back
Memories &Peace Of Mind
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  #60  
Old 01-21-2018, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
Prove it to yourself. Use the topsider, then go pull the drain plug and see what comes out. If it's dry, I'll eat my hat. The nastiest part of the oil is always the bit that keeps trickling out after the bulk of the oil has drained. The topsider CANNOT remove that part of the oil fill, and that's the nasty part you REALLY want removed during the change. Gravity does the work for you, when hot, that stuff becomes mobile and will flow towards the drain plug.
.......
Get ready to eat your hat. I have never used the kind of top sider with a hand pump and skinny wand that you shove in the dipstick tube. My DIY setup use the dip stick tube as the wand which use an elec vac pump to suck down a 5 gal steel tank down to 27" HG, with a quick release of the vacuum, it violently sucks the hot oil out in a few seconds. I open the oil filter lid beforehand (air inlet) and it sucks the filter and housing dry in one fell swoop. I have taken the drain plug out afterwards and not a single drop of oil comes out. If you drain oil via the drain plug, it will drip for hours afterwards. Which would you say is a more complete drain?

In fact, if you look in the FSM, the recommended oil change method is vacuum.

The type of hand pump top sider that shoves a small wand in the dipstick tube probably will not work as well as the dealer's or my setup, because it does not have violent sucking action.

I have a thread showing my setup if you want to make one. It's easy to make, you just need an elec vacuum pump and a 5 gal Freon tank and some hoses and clamps.
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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
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