OM617 Build with CAT parts - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

CATMAN · #1 12-26-2017, 09:41 PM

This is my first post here, you all seem like a resourceful bunch so I figured I better sign up to see if anyone can offer some insight on my newly undertaken OM617 project.

Some background:

I got a free 1983 300D donor car to use for a project. It was a 1 owner, always dealer serviced, 112K miles. Its sat in a barn for 8 years, and started right up with a jump from my F350. 8yr old diesel and 25* weather didn't seem to bother it one bit.

The OM617 will be used to re-power a 2 wheel drive 2008 Ford Ranger. The overall scope will include mating the engine to a M5OD-2 5sp ford manual from a 2003 F150 and a Dana20 T-case from a 1976 Bronco. The truck will also be getting a Dana44 front axle and Ford 9" rear axle with radius arm front suspension and leaf rear.

I bought the 5sp transmission already, and acquired a rusted out 1976 Bronco as a donor for t-case, axles, and suspension/steering parts. I'll be using the Mercedes4x4 engine to trans adapter, and the Advanced Adapters trans to t-case adapter unless it proves more cost effective to have a local machine shop make those parts.

The rebuilt truck will be a daily driver for one of my foremen who already has it issued to him as a take home company vehicle. Its primary use will be for work not a hobby truck for 4-wheeling. I plan on putting 33" tires on it and keeping the suspension height as conservative as possible.

I intend to entirely eliminate the vacuum system, remove the ALDA, crank up the fuel, and install a mechanically controlled VGT turbo. This was an EGR engine and I can weld cast properly so the intake and exhaust manifolds will be cut, patched, and worked very smooth. The exhaust manifold and hot side of the turbo will be ceramic coated inside and out, and the truck will get a 3" straight pipe with no resonator or muffler of any kind. As I build up the motor I will replace all intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, studs, and nuts. A new water pump will be installed. Injectors will be rebuilt with new nozzles, hard lines flushed clean, new OEM MB return lines installed. I will install new glow plugs and also inspect and clean precup chambers if needed. I most likely will also pull the head and crank and repair/replace anything necessary. This motor will also get a custom welded oil pan to clear the large front differential

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I saw many threads here and on superturbodiesel where members responding to questions commonly asked "what is the application" so I tried to be thorough in the above project related information.

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I own a construction business and am a die hard Caterpillar guy. I have only Cat equipment and a great relationship with my local dealer and their parts department. My below ideas about this motor build will incorporate Cat parts because I will have fun trying to use Cat parts and this will make servicing this motor far easier. The parts department will let me add this truck into their system and database every Cat part for this truck into my customer account.

Myself or employees are in the dealer almost weekly. No other vendor in town will keep track of any part numbers on a custom built truck. This will make the end product very practical for me, and worthy of a yellow paint job. Not to mention they have the best custom hose shop in town and can mandrel bend and braise anything I will need.

Quick list of potential Cat parts:

1. Power Steering Pump & Reservoir
2. Alternator
3. AC Compressor
4. Fuel Filters, Primary & Secondary
5. Oil Filter & Brackets
6. Air Filter System
7. Motor Mounts
8. Battery
9. All V-Belts
10. All Fabricated Hoses & Hard Lines
11. All fluids
12. Glow plug circuit

The following is what I am seeking some questions or feedback on:

1. The Power Steering system is my biggest engineering feat that I want to accomplish on this engine build. I want an end product with a clean and industrial type of look to it and to do that I want to eliminate the vacuum pump and install a direct drive power steering pump similar to this one from a Cat C7.
https://images.truckpartsinventory.com/parts/22571/2004-CAT-C-7-Steering-Pumps-zMAPzngmPdGH_b.jpg
I do business with a good local machine shop that can fabricate the necessary brackets and components to mate a direct drive pump like this into a "slip on" configuration to allow for install/removal without risk of accidental timing changes. Cat makes many direct drive PS pumps and remote reservoirs for them and I am not concerned about finding one that will fit in place of the stock vacuum pump without causing fan clearance issues. My only concern I would like feedback on is will doing this cause any adverse effects on timing chain or sprocket wear? I am thinking it should not so long as the chain tension and lubrication is as good as it can be. Has anyone done anything like this before?

2. I read that the stock alternator is quite low on power, I will find a 120amp or higher unit form Cat that can be adapted without any brackets.

3. I will replace the inferior Delphi AC compressor with a refurbished Sanden unit sourced from a Caterpillar motor. This will come stock with a v-belt clutch pulley and I can easily fabricate brackets to mate it to the motor.

4. Has anyone used a Cat fuel filter on their OM617 before? I want to use one that is slightly larger and has a fuel/water separator incorporated into it. If I can find one that will spin on to the factory MB filter housing I will use that, if not I will either modify the housing with a new threaded stub or find a suitable Cat housing that can be bolted on without much extra fabrication work. For the small in-line filter I plan to simply bring that to the dealer and find the closest match and go with it.

5. I know that the factory MB upright canister oil filter is a good design and well engineered but for me it's not worth keeping because I am not going to special order OEM filters from the web every time I change the oil. My closest MB dealer is an hour away and if I keep that intact I am the type of guy who'd want to use an OEM filter. Too much hassle for my application so I intend to convert to a spin-on cat unit. Has anyone converted their motor to use a spin on filter? I have seen a thread I found via google of a home-brew spin on configuration with an upside down filter and I don't like that. If need be I'll source an easy to fit cat housing piece and bracket it onto the motor then run hard lines as needed. If anyone has any tips for the filter conversion I'm all ears.

6. I don't like the look or lack of protection with the exposed "cone type" cold air intake setups that seem common on swaps. I'll find myself a high flow air filter housing and filter from Cat that will give me great air flow and adequate dust protection along with a filter life indicator gauge built into the body of the housing.

7. I intend to keep the factory MB cast aluminum motor mount arms and grind off the "shock absorber" portions of the arms, leaving only the main mounting holes. Cat sells hundreds of various motor mounts, I am sure there is a fluid filled high isolation mount that will fit the MB holes.

8. Cat sells private label AGM batteries specifically engineered for starting Diesel engines and living in high vibration and high impact environments. They're usually less than $40 more than the same size battery from Napa and I have had far better luck with them. They incorporate some elements of deep cycle design into these batteries to keep glow plugs from wearing them down in very cold weather.

9. Cat makes tons of v-belts and I can easily size up what I need for this build. Their belts seem to be far more abrasion and chemical resistant than standard auto parts store products. I'll gladly pay double for their belts and learned from experience they do outperform all competition.

10. As stated above, our dealer has an in house flexible and solid hose shop that is top notch in quality and turn around time. They can make both solid and flex lines for engine oil, power steering, AC systems, diesel fuel, and coolant. They also offer custom radiator hose fabrication. I was told by the hose shop manager that when I've got the engine ready to be plumbed I can drop it off on its engine stand and come back in 2 days when its done. Far easier IMO than running around town or sourcing stuff online.

11. I've always ran 100% Cat fluids on equipment because my pricing on these is the same as major label items at any auto parts store. They claim their product is engineered specifically to handle more abuse from the operator and be used in dirtier environments compared to name brand fluids. I wouldn't think of putting Cat fluids in a brand new Merc engine, and have never considered anything but OEM Ford fluids on my 6.7 Powerstroke trucks. I am betting that this old lump of German diesel power will take to Cat fluids just fine though.

12. The factory glow plug relay on the 300D was junk upon arrival. Cat makes various stand alone glow plug circuit modules, does anyone see any reason not to go that route?

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I hope anyone who takes the time to read this appreciates my enthusiasm for building an OM617. This is probably one hell of a first post by forum standards, but I am no newbie to doing projects like this. All help, advise, or questions will be well appreciated.

Talking me out of using as much CAT sourced parts as possible will be a lost cause. Every single part Cat has ever made has full engineered drawings and performance specs available in their dealer parts ordering system. I have no other source that will let me drop Merc parts off to be matched for fit and application.

I'll start posting pictures soon. The engine is on a stand and being stripped and cleaned.

Also: If anyone here has interest in adapting some of these Cat parts to their engine please PM me to discuss costs. All adapters and brackets for this project will be commissioned to a CNC shop and I will be retaining the design drawings and production rights.

vstech · #2 12-26-2017, 11:04 PM

My o my...

You better take a LOT of pics.

The filter base can be modified for a cat filter. There is a thread on here...

vstech · #3 12-26-2017, 11:09 PM

Fuel filter upgrade

300 Super D · #4 12-26-2017, 11:25 PM

Jesus, why do all of this for what will ultimately be an unreliable, maintenance nightmare of a franken-truck?

I know plenty of guys that just enjoy making work for themselves to avoid a mean wife, or whatever, and if that's the case then good luck, but if this is a work truck, why on earth not buy a 4x4 already? What's wrong with an old F250 diesel? You are asking for an endless string of problems, leaks, etc.. not to mention you are ruining a perfectly good 617.

Rogviler · #5 12-27-2017, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 Super D

Jesus, why do all of this for what will ultimately be an unreliable, maintenance nightmare of a franken-truck?

I know plenty of guys that just enjoy making work for themselves to avoid a mean wife, or whatever, and if that's the case then good luck, but if this is a work truck, why on earth not buy a 4x4 already? What's wrong with an old F250 diesel? You are asking for an endless string of problems, leaks, etc.. not to mention you are ruining a perfectly good 617.

LOL, he's literally going to be eliminating most of the LEAST reliable components of the 617. I fail to see the downside of that.

I'm all for this. Should be cool in the end.

-Rog

CDTurbo001 · #6 12-27-2017, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogviler

LOL, he's literally going to be eliminating most of the LEAST reliable components of the 617. I fail to see the downside of that.

I'm all for this. Should be cool in the end.

-Rog

This. I have little input, but if done right and you know what you've created and how to repair it (which it sounds like you certainly do) it sounds like something worth showing off.

moon161 · #7 12-27-2017, 08:46 AM

A couple people have done vacuum pump deletes, I think greazzer. Apparently there's more to it than taking the vacuum pump off and covering the hole, I think they did something with/to the timing device, and I thought that seems like vacuum, but with extra steps.

I mentioning this because you're talking vacuum pump delete and direct drive steering pump.

tdoublenastywitit · #8 12-27-2017, 08:55 AM

Hope u don't run outta steam after the first year of doing this.... Cuz it's gonna take a couple

And custom builds do not seem to get a good response around here and I really don't think many member have much experience with it. Not to say they don't have a great knowledge and experience to help u out. Ive just seen a lot of stuff that PP members will tell u "can't be done" but then u go over to STD and all sorts of people have done it.

greazzer · #9 12-27-2017, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon161

A couple people have done vacuum pump deletes, I think greazzer. Apparently there's more to it than taking the vacuum pump off and covering the hole, I think they did something with/to the timing device, and I thought that seems like vacuum, but with extra steps.

I mentioning this because you're talking vacuum pump delete and direct drive steering pump.

Yup .... you will either need to create a plate / cover which clears the segmental flange & center bolt OR mill off the lobes from the segmental flange & counter sink the 2 bolts which holds the flange to the timing device. This was confirmed by Metric Motors as well -- contrary to a forum member who alleges he just ran his engine without that flange. If you look at the C-111 engine, there is the MB factory delete plate. There are apparently 2 different types of plates as well. Both types probably came off a fork lift application OM616 ... I have also a milled plate which is around 2" deep to clear the flange's lobes and center bolt. Finding a thick chunk of aluminum is tricky if you want to save a fortune.

Also, contact Alec about an upgraded CAT fuel system. That appears to be a top notch mod and well worth every penny. That will save you a bunch of time and money.

moon161 · #10 12-27-2017, 09:26 AM

It could probably be done as a fabricated piece- a steel cover plate with a clearance hole and bolt pattern and a piece of pipe with a welded cap, or just a pipe cap of appropriate size could be welded on. http://www.st-pipefittings.com/ANSI%20B16.9-end%20cap.pdf
A skim cut on the back side would leave it flat and smooth enough to seal up.

A water/laser jet or plasma cutting table could give you a good enough precision and finish to use it direct without any machining, or could use the vacuum pump as a drill template before welding it up. Don't have holes cut hot (laser/flame/plasma) that you mean to drill in any way, because they'll be hardened by the rapid cooling in the process.

This is less than a day's CAD work with good information to start with.

R-3350 · #11 12-27-2017, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 Super D

Jesus, why do all of this for what will ultimately be an unreliable, maintenance nightmare of a franken-truck?

I know plenty of guys that just enjoy making work for themselves to avoid a mean wife, or whatever, and if that's the case then good luck, but if this is a work truck, why on earth not buy a 4x4 already? What's wrong with an old F250 diesel? You are asking for an endless string of problems, leaks, etc.. not to mention you are ruining a perfectly good 617.

lol i have spent a long time now building my project into something just as Frankensteined and while i have had issues it has been worth it the entire time. i have parts off of W201,W126,W129,W107,W116,first gen cummins 5.9,catapillar fuel filters, and lots of random others. the only issues are ones i haven't got around to fixing yet plus ordering parts can be interesting. as for the truck swap, i might look into a Dieselmeken pump as the stock pump can only support around 150-160HP fully turned up and the egt's get kinda bad at that point. i think he is still doing 7.5MM MW pumps if you wanted to keep the stock pump. the M is a bit easier to tune and can deliver more fuel but requires new injection lines and a different throttle linkage plus having to source a core M pump. as for the turbo i might recommend a GT2359V off of a OM648 you will need a flange adapter and some way to control the VNT ring. i tried one briefly however i went back to a WG turbo as the 23V was a china clone and im planning on compounds soon. for the controller look into the SynchroG vnt controller its a rather elegant solution.

Dan Stokes · #12 12-27-2017, 10:24 AM

I've done at least some of the mods you're considering and I suggest you peruse my build thread. Greezer's machine guy made my vacuum pump eliminator plate and it works perfectly - pics in my thread. We have a metal supplier who gets bits and pieces of left over aluminum and I was able to pick up some thick aluminum blanks to make the plate out of.

The Mercedes engine mounts are REALLY easy to adapt to in a custom application so you might want to look at those even though they're not Cat. The Mercedes mounts attach with a long thru bolt that runs straight up and down so as long as you have a flat surface you can bolt the engine in place - easy-peezy.

The biggest hunk of HP in these engines is the injection pump. I suggest you contact Dieselmeken in Sweden - Goren Lindgren is the owner and he REALLY knows his stuff. I'm up about 100 RWHP with that single change. Not cheap but worth it.

Dan

tdoublenastywitit · #13 12-27-2017, 10:36 AM

Can someone please tell me how much a super pump actially costs after shipping? A lot of people talk about wanting one but does anyone have one?

How much for the super pump? With let's just say the common 7.5mm elements.

And for the OP if you want anythjng more than 15 extra HP from stock you will NEED a super pump.

ROLLGUY · #14 12-27-2017, 11:54 AM

I am interested in this build, and am excited to follow along. We all love to see lots of photos here. Contact me when you get to the A/C. I have everything you need to mount the Sanden on your 617..........Rich

ROLLGUY · #15 12-27-2017, 11:56 AM

If you can find a set of manifolds from a W116- '78-'79 300SD, they have no EGR.