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Feasability?- CDI drivetrain swapped into E320 wagon Feasability?- CDI drivetrain swapped into E320 wagon
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  #16  
Old 07-23-2018, 07:02 PM
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If you had both complete cars side by side you could swap all the electronic components from the CDI into the wagon. The only real difference is the rear tailgate. You could do it without xentry. A simple icarsoft would be enough to Id compatibility, read live data and clear any codes that might pop up.

I've seen people do C32 and C55 drivetrain into a c240 wagon in their garage without issue. This isn't much different. I'm still not convinced this is a worthwhile endeavor but it's certainly not impossible for the average DIYer.

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  #17  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
If you had both complete cars side by side you could swap all the electronic components from the CDI into the wagon. The only real difference is the rear tailgate. You could do it without xentry. A simple icarsoft would be enough to Id compatibility, read live data and clear any codes that might pop up.

I've seen people do C32 and C55 drivetrain into a c240 wagon in their garage without issue. This isn't much different. I'm still not convinced this is a worthwhile endeavor but it's certainly not impossible for the average DIYer.
I would definitely have both the donor and the recipient side by side for the swap. I would probably pull both drivetrains (I will try to sell the gas one while it is still in the car), so the wiring is easier to remove. Then I would remove all the wiring, modules, and specific parts from the gas E that are not needed for the Diesel engine, making it ready to receive the CDI components. I can then remove each component from the CDI, and install it in the wagon. That way I won't forget where everything goes.......Rich
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:04 PM
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Going from memory on the w203 (assuming the w211 is very similar) the coded components are:

EIS (ignition)
Instrument cluster
ECU
shifter module
Teleaid

The TCM is not coded but obviously the shift programs are different so you'll have to swap that too. The engine wiring harnesses are designed to be modular so you'll unplug one from the under hood fuse box and move it with the other car with the engine. The other issue you might run into is the front and rear SAM (signal aquisition modules) if the optional equipment is different between the 2 cars (sunroof, power seats etc). You'll probably be better off swapping those too. Have STAR or icarsoft on hand. The wagon will take on the CDIs odometer reading and keys.
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:07 PM
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Can the gasser wagon fuel tank be used for CDI? I have no idea how fuel is plumbed in the high pressure CDI system. There might be wagon specific Diesel emissions components around the fuel tank.

FWIW, my ‘98 wagon throws an SLS sensor error when I run it with the ‘98 sedan gauge cluster. The sedan doesn’t mind the wagon cluster. I tried a ‘02 Sport cluster (proper tach) in the C320 and half the functions didn’t work. I read I had to mess with the fuel sender (there’s a Sport fuel sender??) and rear SAM to get it to work... maybe.

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02 C320 wagon
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  #20  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Going from memory on the w203 (assuming the w211 is very similar) the coded components are:

EIS (ignition)
Instrument cluster
ECU
shifter module
Teleaid

The TCM is not coded but obviously the shift programs are different so you'll have to swap that too. The engine wiring harnesses are designed to be modular so you'll unplug one from the under hood fuse box and move it with the other car with the engine. The other issue you might run into is the front and rear SAM (signal aquisition modules) if the optional equipment is different between the 2 cars (sunroof, power seats etc). You'll probably be better off swapping those too. Have STAR or icarsoft on hand. The wagon will take on the CDIs odometer reading and keys.
Great info here, thanks. If I can get away without changing the harness under the dash, that would be great. I think the only thing that may be different between the two cars is heated seats. The CDI does NOT have them. If the wagon does, I might have a problem. However, if it does have modular architecture, heated seats may just be plug-and-play.
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  #21  
Old 07-24-2018, 08:19 AM
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Another bit. Be sure to retain the title from the donor car, this is vital in getting parts such as keys.
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Andres View Post
I don't think MB dealerships are particularly bad
Doesn't sound like it from your prior post.

Given you didn't answer the Xentry pricing question I'll answer it for you. Last I checked it was $ 20,000 to buy one system and $ 6,000 per year to keep it active. If the subscription is canceled it will brick after a few months.

I'd figure a small dealer will have 2 systems and larger one 4 to 6. Who pays for this?

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Originally Posted by Don Andres View Post
I do not want to pay this much because breakdowns and expensive repairs have become all too common based on my personal experience.
You do realize that there are people that are saying the same thing about a recent $ 14,000 Chevy spark? I've heard this same line over the past 4 decades across all makes even though the lifespan of a car has steadily gone up.

Something else to consider, a regular car costs X and a MB some multiplier of X so repair costs will be higher. The cost to buy a used car might go down but cost of repair won't regardless of the brand.

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Originally Posted by Don Andres View Post
Repairs on my '06 and '08 Mercedes have cost over $14k in 15 months. Definitely way too much money combined with lousy reliability to hold on to them. Both are 120-130k miles and I have them serviced regularly. These cars have too many parts -in my experience- that are prone to failure and once they're past a certain age/mileage become too expensive to maintain.
At 12 years / 130 K miles the car has fulfilled it's primary mission regarding the first and second owners whom likely owned the car for 4 years each. Your solution would be to buy new / CPO and turn it every 4 years, it all comes down to cost per mile.

The amount of electronics in a modern car regardless of brand is staggering. All it takes is the failure of one small part to take down an entire sub system. All of this resides in a hostile environment of heat / cold / rapid temperature swings / vibration / shock.

Think about the physical stresses to electronics when a the interior of a car sitting in the sun goes from 110 *F to 70*F over a few minutes. Or from below zero to 75. I haven't even touched on the range of under hood temps. . .

Electronic components are rated from low to high as Consumer / Industrial / Automotive / Military, this should tell you something about the automotive environment.

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Originally Posted by Don Andres View Post
I remember my Mercedes cars from the 70s, 80s and 90s being very reliable with proper maintenance, even with high mileage. So I'm going back to that, focusing on clean W126 and W124 models.
With less to break, reliability might be greater regardless of brand however, age takes it toll.

Our guy below thinks the 90's were bad so take them of your list.

Quote:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/vintage-mercedes/394229-why-did-mb-name-c63.html

Post 6

Come to think of it, the '90s weren't a very good time for anything Mercedes.
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Originally Posted by Don Andres View Post
I don't mind not driving the latest and greatest. We'll see how I'll do with those. They are likely going to have repair needs too but it won't be failing computers that cause all 4 wheels to lock up or leaking air struts or steering angle sensors or intake manifolds that have non-replaceable plastic parts on them.... and on goes the list.
Rapid depreciation should be a tip off that the car might not be a good value to the general public. A complicated car that is $ to repair will have a very low residual value. Think of it this way, you are getting a high end car at a discount but need to spend some $ to keep it going, this is cost of ownership that many overlook.

My 97 SL 320 Sport was about $ 90 K new, bought it in 2011 for $ 6,000 and immediately installed about $ 2,500 in _parts_ to get it to my standards. Currently it has an external coolant leak at the head gasket and I want to rebuild the transmission as a preventive measure.

Even with all of this and adjusted for inflation, I'm about at what the original owner would have paid in _sales tax_. I consider this a pretty good deal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andres View Post
Mercedes is probably one of the finest new car money can buy but I'm not willing to spend that much money on a car. They just depreciate too quickly. Buying a 10 year old one and have reliable wheels doesn't seem to be an option anymore so I'm trying something else. YMMV
Try a Toyota / Honda but don't expect the body to resist rust very much.
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  #23  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:37 AM
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Another bit. Be sure to retain the title from the donor car, this is vital in getting parts such as keys.
Good point. However, if I remove so many parts from the car, it will need to go to the scrapper. I don't want to have a shell in my yard taking up space. I would probably get an extra key ahead of time just in case. Other than keys, what reason would I need to retain the title for?
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  #24  
Old 07-24-2018, 11:40 AM
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Parts car
Photos of the parts car. It has all the parts I need to fix the CDI. The rims and tires are like new. It also has a new grille that was not installed (in the trunk).
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Feasability?- CDI drivetrain swapped into E320 wagon-img_2261.jpg   Feasability?- CDI drivetrain swapped into E320 wagon-img_2262.jpg   Feasability?- CDI drivetrain swapped into E320 wagon-img_2263.jpg   Feasability?- CDI drivetrain swapped into E320 wagon-img_2264.jpg  
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  #25  
Old 07-24-2018, 02:09 PM
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Man, that would be a lot of work swapping that wire loom. You'll definitely would have to pull the dash. Consider this to be a year or so long project with all the wire digging and matching.

But I would love to see a CDI wagon happen!
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  #26  
Old 07-24-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DeliveryValve View Post
Man, that would be a lot of work swapping that wire loom. You'll definitely would have to pull the dash. Consider this to be a year or so long project with all the wire digging and matching.

But I would love to see a CDI wagon happen!
There is no way I would let this project go that long. I started this thread to gather information on what needed to be done, and I have some great info already. If I get enough information, and am confident I can do the swap, Lord willing I will do it. I have inside space available to have both cars side by side, and a friend willing to help that is actually more excited than I am about the possibility of doing this.
As far as swapping the wire loom, it may not be as hard as one might think (should it need to be done). tjts1 says the wiring is modular, so I expect not to have to deal with any wiring rearward of the firewall. It makes sense that all the wiring rear of the firewall is the same between all engines. Since the ECM will go with the engine, it should be an easy swap. But again, I need to know all these things before turning the first wrench.
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  #27  
Old 07-24-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
Photos of the parts car. It has all the parts I need to fix the CDI. The rims and tires are like new. It also has a new grille that was not installed (in the trunk).
Nice! What engine is in the parts car?
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  #28  
Old 07-24-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Nice! What engine is in the parts car?
Gas V6. It runs good, so I will probably sell the engine and trans if I use it as a parts car to fix the CDI. However, if I do the wagon-CDI swap, I will use the parts from the CDI to fix the gasser (door, fender, hood, grill, interior parts etc). These cars in decent condition only get about $ three grand, so I won't go crazy with laborious parts swapping.
The nice thing is, If I do the wagon-CDI, the CDI donor will be pretty stripped, and will give it's all for not one, but two cars.
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  #29  
Old 07-24-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
...
As far as swapping the wire loom, it may not be as hard as one might think (should it need to be done). tjts1 says the wiring is modular, ...
Right, I forgotten you can pull the engine with wire harness intact.
You can probably look at your gasser parts car and see the if plugs are all the same in the under the hood fuse box.


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  #30  
Old 07-24-2018, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ROLLGUY View Post
Good point. However, if I remove so many parts from the car, it will need to go to the scrapper. I don't want to have a shell in my yard taking up space. I would probably get an extra key ahead of time just in case. Other than keys, what reason would I need to retain the title for?
Anything that is VIN coded like the dash / engine / air Bag computer.

Also, if you ever take it in for major service, you might need to prove ownership of VIN coded parts. Say the engine computer needs reflashed, the dealer needs the donor cars VIN not the body VIN.

Find a dealer you have a solid relationship with if you need major service, in theory the dealer might be prohibited from working on a mixed VIN car. ( liability issues )

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