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-   -   Fixed broken Key Head for my 85 300D (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/394875-fixed-broken-key-head-my-85-300d.html)

ykobayashi 08-28-2018 11:35 PM

Fixed broken Key Head for my 85 300D
 
After losing my key I decided it was time to make a key head for my W123 1985 300D. The key had the usual problem of breaking at the plastic. I dropped the key and got locked out of the car for a week till I found it. So I looked around and saw the nice examples here for the billet aluminum key head and the wood versions and the recycled emblem versions. I got inspired and cut my own out of two sheets of acrylic sheet on my CNC router. Here is the project.

Busted key head:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1877/...8a1b68cf_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1894/...2e67ce59_n.jpg

Some CAD/CAM work:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1876/...24d6262a_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1884/...e4f7b5ac_n.jpg

Two identical halves completed.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1893/...f71eb978_n.jpg

I made them look as close as I could to the original. My mill cannot do 3D so I just did two simple flat plates with a pocket for the key.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1870/...0f86010b_n.jpg

Ready for Glue. I used Gorilla Glue and had good results. It suffered from the glue foaming ooze that Gorilla Glue does. Probably good to clean it off after clamping before the glue gets really hard. Next time I'll mask off the key and the head to keep the surface nice.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1858/...2a78d1ea_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1845/...b6078728_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1871/...154d5bab_n.jpg

Clamped in a cheap pinch clamp:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1884/...2701f225_n.jpg

Clamped it in a pinch clamp overnight. Here is the result. The glue oozed out and foamed up like it does. I'd have cleaned it more had I known how stubborn the glue is when it dries. It lost the smooth finish on the plastic.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1890/...685b402b_n.jpg


Thickness is about right.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1865/...4eab6cb5_n.jpg

I got tired of the glue splotched finish and I grained it with some 400 wet dry sand paper. Looks very nice. I figure it'll get beat up in my pocket. And there it is. Now time to get back to making the car run better. The car is stored at my parents' place and I haven't been able to get to it for awhile. I got impatient and decided to work on this key in the meantime. It came out pretty nice.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1883/...523f4e2e_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1883/...21aef9b0_n.jpg

Mike D 08-28-2018 11:47 PM

Good work on the key head.

I've had good luck using the J-B Water weld or the POR15 epoxy putty to make new key heads.

Yeah, the Gorilla glue can make a mess. I won't use it unless there is no alternative. It comes in handy for a quick foam adhesive/filler. Mix it up with some water and apply quickly.

cornemuse 08-29-2018 11:09 AM

Now, go get a dupe made with an all metal key.

Mike D 08-29-2018 11:29 AM

THAT is the hard part! Finding a real locksmith who has the steel blanks can be tough. Forget about the big box stores or the local hardware guys, they don't carry them.

Diesel911 08-29-2018 01:58 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I bought a Myele Ignition Lock Tumbler and it came with a similar plastic key head. I took a knife and split the plastic key head and coated the T end with JB Weld epoxy put the plastic Key head back on and clamped together.

I also bought a set of used locks on eBay and it came with the below Key; see the pic.

I have been using Brass Keys since Sep 2007. When my Ignition Lock Tumbler failed The flange/hear of the tumbler separated from the main body of the tumbler. Which had nothing to do with me using Brass keys.

Anyone remember that guy 3-4 years ago that sold similar aluminum key head?

ykobayashi 08-29-2018 07:14 PM

Yeah I’d love to find some steel blanks like the OEM. I’ve used the plated brass and they just turn to dust after a few years. I guess it isn’t bad if they’re cheap but the dust ends up in the lock core.

The other option was to go to MB and get a key made by VIN. I actually live a few blocks from Mercedes Classic Center. But my new frankencar 300d seems to have three different keys. Yep...one for the ignition, one for the drivers door which is missing and one for the trunk and passenger door which is the steel key I rebuilt.

My hope is I’ll get the car back to my garage and get all the cylinders on the bench. I think I can pin them alike. (I have a “degree” from the Foley Belsaw Institute in locksmithing :P). Then I can use the single steel key.

The P.O. did a number with the locks. He only gave me two keys and shrugged his shoulders. I promptly lost the key as it fell out of the black head. It took me awhile to find it. It was in the floor of the trunk that had spontaneously locked itself. I still don’t get it, but somehow the trunk lock can go from the unlocked state to the locked state on this car without turning the key...that is something is wonky on the mechanism. I unlock it and put it in the unlock mode and I can open and close it a few times, then on the tenth time it goes “click” inside as I press the button and it locks.

I did that with the key tip inside. Luckily the car was open and I was able to fish the key out through the first aid kit. Ahhh, a w123 not a w126. :)

I saw the links of the aluminum key head guy Conrad. I was inspired by his work. His design was too elaborate for my skills. It takes a couple of setups for the two sided machining and tapped holes. I don’t think my plastic would hold up well with those little screws and the acrylic isn’t as stiff as aluminum.

vwnate1 08-30-2018 08:17 PM

Home Made Key Heads !
 
Very nice work there, hats off .

Older key shops often have a few all steel rubber head key blanks lying 'round in the misc. box, they have to be extra helpful or really bored to bother looking though .

FWIW, 1500 grit wet/dry abrasive will make that key head look even spiffier .

ykobayashi 08-31-2018 08:19 AM

Ya know, everyone refers to the silver keys as “steel” and I just assumed they were steel. I started thinking they must wear out key machines faster than the brass blanks.

I got a fridge magnet and started picking up my keys. My real MB keys on my SD and the repaired key head unit are indeed steel. Wow. No wonder they don’t wear away. They must have some really hard chrome plating on them too.

I’m really regretting tossing my extra 240d keys. Actually the car for that matter as it had great matching locks with steel keys. But at the time I didn’t think I’d own another W123. Oh well. Onward.

Well if I do search for steel keys I know how to test them now.

Diesel911 08-31-2018 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykobayashi (Post 3840027)
After losing my key I decided it was time to make a key head for my W123 1985 300D. The key had the usual problem of breaking at the plastic. I dropped the key and got locked out of the car for a week till I found it. So I looked around and saw the nice examples here for the billet aluminum key head and the wood versions and the recycled emblem versions. I got inspired and cut my own out of two sheets of acrylic sheet on my CNC router. Here is the project.

Busted key head:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1877/...8a1b68cf_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1894/...2e67ce59_n.jpg

Some CAD/CAM work:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1876/...24d6262a_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1884/...e4f7b5ac_n.jpg

Two identical halves completed.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1893/...f71eb978_n.jpg

I made them look as close as I could to the original. My mill cannot do 3D so I just did two simple flat plates with a pocket for the key.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1870/...0f86010b_n.jpg

Ready for Glue. I used Gorilla Glue and had good results. It suffered from the glue foaming ooze that Gorilla Glue does. Probably good to clean it off after clamping before the glue gets really hard. Next time I'll mask off the key and the head to keep the surface nice.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1858/...2a78d1ea_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1845/...b6078728_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1871/...154d5bab_n.jpg

Clamped in a cheap pinch clamp:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1884/...2701f225_n.jpg

Clamped it in a pinch clamp overnight. Here is the result. The glue oozed out and foamed up like it does. I'd have cleaned it more had I known how stubborn the glue is when it dries. It lost the smooth finish on the plastic.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1890/...685b402b_n.jpg


Thickness is about right.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1865/...4eab6cb5_n.jpg

I got tired of the glue splotched finish and I grained it with some 400 wet dry sand paper. Looks very nice. I figure it'll get beat up in my pocket. And there it is. Now time to get back to making the car run better. The car is stored at my parents' place and I haven't been able to get to it for awhile. I got impatient and decided to work on this key in the meantime. It came out pretty nice.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1883/...523f4e2e_n.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1883/...21aef9b0_n.jpg



I use that Gorilla Glue for various things but for this particular application I believe epoxy is a better choice.

Diesel911 08-31-2018 02:09 PM

Anyone remember that guy 3-4 years ago that sold similar aluminum key head?

BWhitmore 08-31-2018 05:25 PM

Konradwax is the fellow who made the billet key heads. Very good quality. He had some problems with production and stopped selling the key heads. I was lucky and bought 3 of the key heads for my W123 cars.

ykobayashi 08-31-2018 05:57 PM

That makes a ton of sense. I made about four prototypes. I learned a lot about my CNC machine (I got it twenty years ago and still haven’t mastered its quirks) in the process of making parts.

I actually made 15 or so final key heads. There were some tolerancing issues with the thickness of the key that dogged me. Too deep a pocket and the key rattled, too shallow and the halves don’t close. Then there were CAM issues like how my machine slows down to a snails pace when interpolating an ellipse from circular arcs. I got greedy and tried to make a bunch using a step and repeated design but found out my table isn’t flat enough over a panelized array. Konrad’s design used a lot of straight lines which was smart.

But his two halves were different and machined on both sides. A lot of work.

My production time was 14 minutes long per half but I really wanted to replicate the profile of the OE key.

After I produced a pile of reject parts I realized where Konrad probably was when he threw in the towel. Even at $30 a pop (I recall he asked that much) it was a difficult part to make.

Then throw in making from metal and needing anodizing. Good to hear you got a few while it lasted.

I was toying with doing metal...aluminum or brass but I figured I’d keep it simple. Like anything “real” it is always harder than it looks.

I’m gonna go get my car Sunday. I’m looking forward to making all the cylinders work with the steel key.

ykobayashi 08-31-2018 06:08 PM

early attempts
 
First tries

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1853/...34a26434_n.jpg

First ugly prototype. Proof of concept.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1885/...8feb3376_n.jpg

Learning by messing up. The story of my life. It's easy to make one of something. It's a whole other thing making lots of them exactly the same.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1900/...3d222802_n.jpg

Diesel911 08-31-2018 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykobayashi (Post 3840616)
That makes a ton of sense. I made about four prototypes. I learned a lot about my CNC machine (I got it twenty years ago and still haven’t mastered its quirks) in the process of making parts.

I actually made 15 or so final key heads. There were some tolerancing issues with the thickness of the key that dogged me. Too deep a pocket and the key rattled, too shallow and the halves don’t close. Then there were CAM issues like how my machine slows down to a snails pace when interpolating an ellipse from circular arcs. I got greedy and tried to make a bunch using a step and repeated design but found out my table isn’t flat enough over a panelized array. Konrad’s design used a lot of straight lines which was smart.

But his two halves were different and machined on both sides. A lot of work.

My production time was 14 minutes long per half but I really wanted to replicate the profile of the OE key.

After I produced a pile of reject parts I realized where Konrad probably was when he threw in the towel. Even at $30 a pop (I recall he asked that much) it was a difficult part to make.

Then throw in making from metal and needing anodizing. Good to hear you got a few while it lasted.

I was toying with doing metal...aluminum or brass but I figured I’d keep it simple. Like anything “real” it is always harder than it looks.

I’m gonna go get my car Sunday. I’m looking forward to making all the cylinders work with the steel key.

As I recall the Konradwax guy was not doing the machining or at least he said his supplier not coming through on time was one of the reasons for him not completing orders.

The other issue is one I experienced myself when I made some special tools for Mercedes is that it becomes too time consuming to deal with a customer here and there. You would make more money simply taking on a minimum wage job or doing overtime.

Anyway I believe Konradwax said it was also an issue of dealing with his normal job and then having time to do the other.

If someone is going to do this small production stuff I think it would be better to make 100 and then sell on eBay where you stand some chance of getting a bunch of orders at one time and can dump them off at the post office at one time. More efficient.

ROLLGUY 09-02-2018 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 3840628)
As I recall the Konradwax guy was not doing the machining or at least he said his supplier not coming through on time was one of the reasons for him not completing orders.

The other issue is one I experienced myself when I made some special tools for Mercedes is that it becomes too time consuming to deal with a customer here and there. You would make more money simply taking on a minimum wage job or doing overtime.

Anyway I believe Konradwax said it was also an issue of dealing with his normal job and then having time to do the other.

If someone is going to do this small production stuff I think it would be better to make 100 and then sell on eBay where you stand some chance of getting a bunch of orders at one time and can dump them off at the post office at one time. More efficient.

Since getting my first Diesel W123 and joining this forum, I have tried to produce niche products (some failures, but mostly successes). Of course the big one is the Sanden retrofit. The EGR kit, and trap bypass kit are second and third. Then there's the fan relay kit as well (very time consuming to make). I also made a bunch of key fobs: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-used-parts-sale-wanted/312188-mercedes-benz-key-fob-made-recycled-parts.html
I have not sold many, but have given away several to friends, and with some cars I sold. I am fortunate, in that I don't have a time consuming regular job. I can devote the time it takes to produce these items. I don't (nor can I) rely on the money generated from my efforts. It is "feast or famine" with this sort of thing. It is more like a hobby for me. Many of these items were born out of necessity (much like the key head), and this community benefits from the creation of all these niche items. One day I am sure someone will have these key heads made out of aluminum, and in China (hint-hint)......Rich

ROLLGUY 09-02-2018 01:26 PM

Emblem key head
 
5 Attachment(s)
(Sorry for the way too large photo, I have no idea how to make it smaller). I made a couple key heads using W123 grille emblems (key sandwiched between two of them). They were very difficult to make, involving many steps. However, the end result was satisfying. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1535908631

First, I removed the studs from the back, and flattened both emblems. I had to grind the edge of the back side so the key would fit in a recess. I used a 1/2" holesaw to make a half circle cutout for a small split ring. I then used epoxy to hold everything together. I am sure there is an easier way to make these. I want to encourage anyone to make these, as I think they are the coolest key head for these cars.

ykobayashi 09-02-2018 02:02 PM

Nice work.

Sounds like a a tough way to make a buck. The tolerance on the key pocket is worrisome. I’m sure it can be done in China. It’s the consistency of their manufacturing I’d worry over. That Konrad part actually looked like a lot of work. Multiple setups and de burring required. I would have gotten tired of being responsible for that quick.

Your Sanden kits are beautiful btw. I saw your car on Craigslist last night and it had me asking myself why I offered $1400 on my blue 85 300d...with a disconnected compressor belt.

Well, I’m going to pick up my car this afternoon. My journey begins. At least I have a steel key. :)

ROLLGUY 09-02-2018 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ykobayashi (Post 3840930)
Nice work.

Sounds like a a tough way to make a buck. The tolerance on the key pocket is worrisome. I’m sure it can be done in China. It’s the consistency of their manufacturing I’d worry over. That Konrad part actually looked like a lot of work. Multiple setups and de burring required. I would have gotten tired of being responsible for that quick.

Your Sanden kits are beautiful btw. I saw your car on Craigslist last night and it had me asking myself why I offered $1400 on my blue 85 300d...with a disconnected compressor belt.

Well, I’m going to pick up my car this afternoon. My journey begins. At least I have a steel key. :)

Thanks. The Sanden retrofit has come a long way, with many revisions and upgrades. I think it is finally perfected. I actually have two 300d's on CL, both with Sanden A/C. They both have the PF condenser and running 134a. After cooling down the cabin, it gets so cold on high fan that I have to run it on low. The blue one is probably the best running, quickest, best shifting 300D that I have ever driven. If I didn't have so many cars, I thought about keeping it. I have six cars on my insurance now, and need to sell some......Rich

ykobayashi 09-02-2018 11:27 PM

woo hoo!
 
Score! Well I rode the train up to get my car today. As I prepped it for the fifty mile drive to my home I jimmied open the glove box. Latch doesn't function but I can unlatch it with a pen knife. This is gonna be awkward at a traffic stop. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, look what I found with the owners manual in the blue vinyl mb pouch! I worried I'd find a key of coke or a bundle of snuff polaroids in there but I my eyes popped out of my head when this key blade fell out of the manual pouch.

A steel key like the other one I had. No head. I'm so jazzed!

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1853/...c91da6db_n.jpg

Now to the long list of fixes. I have the car in my garage now and I'm ready to start crossing them off.

Baby Benz Sandra 09-18-2018 01:10 AM

Fixed Broken Key Head
 
Although I commend all of you for your resourcefulness, I got the deal of the century when I lost the key to my '84 190D last year. After checking with local locksmiths to no avail, I finally acquiesced and contacted one of the local Mercedes dealerships to acquire a new key for my car. Wincing in anticipation of being told what the cost would be, I was stunned when the gentleman told me the cost for the replacement key would be just fifteen dollars! I had to go and show my registration and I.D. to prove I owned the car and so they could write down the VIN number to order the key - they ordered it from a facility in Texas, he told me; where files are kept for every
Mercedes made for just that purpose! I was expecting to be told the new key would cost me hundreds of dollars, and when I was told just fifteen, I ordered two of them. Just thought I'd share that information in case it was not known. (Note: if the car had been a new one that came with one of those electronic keys, it would've cost way more).

ykobayashi 09-18-2018 08:44 AM

Thank you for sharing this. I’m going down to my dealership and ordering some keys for my SD.

strelnik 09-18-2018 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D (Post 3840127)
THAT is the hard part! Finding a real locksmith who has the steel blanks can be tough. Forget about the big box stores or the local hardware guys, they don't carry them.


I have been to independent locksmiths and gotten a dozen key blanks at a time for the W123 and some earlier keys. They are available, just not at Home Depot

kuene 09-18-2018 01:24 PM

I was able to get a couple of keys made at a local locksmith for my 82 300D. But they are made of some softer metal than the originals, little ring shaving sawdust we’re slowly appearing on the dash lip under the key hole. Sure enough about a year into using the new key it started to need some extra nudging and wiggling to turn. I’ve now switched to my second key and am being really really careful taking it in and out - and leaving it in when I can.

I wish they made aftermarket blanks out of harder metal.

vwnate1 09-18-2018 04:22 PM

Dealer Keys
 
Each Dealer sets their own price ~ most are at least $20 .

I highly suggest getting a pair of master and valet keys from your Dealer or The Classic Center then getting ILCO copies made, they're far better than the factory keys, I've never had the heads come off .


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