W123 300d Lost All Oil On Road Trip - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

renaissanceman · #16 09-10-2018, 12:18 AM

Upgrade to a w124:
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/d/1995-mercedes-benz-e300-diesel/6681752740.html

moon161 · #17 09-10-2018, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renaissanceman

Upgrade to a w124:
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/d/1995-mercedes-benz-e300-diesel/6681752740.html

Its got beautiful plumage.

renaissanceman · #18 09-11-2018, 01:15 PM

https://fresno.craigslist.org/pts/d/mercedes-300-turbo-diesel/6655420849.html

I talked with this guy briefly about a month back -- it was pulled from a 1983 300D with 185k.

I think the 617 turbo will essentially bolt right up?

SonnyMorrow · #19 09-11-2018, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

Don't be so quick to blame the breather hose ( or the air intake ) . With your compression numbers being so low, loss of would have likely happened even if the hose was full flow.

Was the hose fully kinked to the point of zero flow or slightly restricted? In any event, if the oil didn't push out of the dipstick, it would have come out of the breather hose.

Was the engine fully warmed up in this vid or just a cold start?

I've had majorly damaged engines be pretty quiet until the oil thinned out a bit.

The key is listen for a sharp noise when you first snap the throttle open then hold engine at 2,000 RPM and listen for a random rattle. High RPM is not needed or desired.

Here is another video, but with the engine fully warmed up. At 0:09 in the video I tried to replicate what you explained about snapping the throttle. Hear that knocking?

(I shut the engine off at 0:22, there is a recent vacuum leak which is why it took so long to shut off)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAm_Yb7EF6Q&t=5s

Quote:

Originally Posted by renaissanceman

https://fresno.craigslist.org/pts/d/mercedes-300-turbo-diesel/6655420849.html

I talked with this guy briefly about a month back -- it was pulled from a 1983 300D with 185k.

I think the 617 turbo will essentially bolt right up?

The engine in the car right now is actually an OM617 turbo, though it did originally have a naturally aspirated OM617 which the previous owner ran low on oil as well. That being said, it is looking like it will need its third engine... can you believe that? Anyways the car has a 4 speed manual and it is a pretty fun set up with the turbo OM617.

97 SL320 · #20 09-11-2018, 08:53 PM

I can't really tell on my end. Still, no oil is a real problem and there will likely be damage.

Given the compression is so low, it needs to be addressed be either repairing or replacing the engine. I'd pull the engine , remove oil pan and inspect the bearings just to see. If the crank and bearings are good, there is a chance of repairing this engine.

I'm wondering if there are some cracked piston ring lands, this would lower compression and increase blow by.

renaissanceman · #21 09-11-2018, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

I can't really tell on my end. Still, no oil is a real problem and there will likely be damage.

Given the compression is so low, it needs to be addressed be either repairing or replacing the engine. I'd pull the engine , remove oil pan and inspect the bearings just to see. If the crank and bearings are good, there is a chance of repairing this engine.

I'm wondering if there are some cracked piston ring lands, this would lower compression and increase blow by.

Run it for 500 miles or so, and then pull a sample and send to blackstone. Cheapest, easiest way to know what is starting to go or has already gone.

If your bearings are toast, lead should be off the scales.

Rogviler · #22 09-11-2018, 09:38 PM

Your engine sounds healthier than mine that I've had for over 7 years. I'd drive that every day.

-Rog

gottarollwithit · #23 09-12-2018, 02:03 AM

Run it! What do you have to lose by driving it til it blows??? Aside from the inconvenience of breaking down, your downside is practically nothing.

Do you really want to toss $1k + at a motor that you may or may not need? If you get a salvage motor, how do you know it is any better than what ya got?

There is this https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/cto/d/1985-mercedes-benz-300-turbo/6693215601.html
But i think that's unnecessary at the moment.

h3ffe · #24 09-12-2018, 02:44 AM

That's worth it just for the turbo and diff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottarollwithit

Run it! What do you have to lose by driving it til it blows??? Aside from the inconvenience of breaking down, your downside is practically nothing.

Do you really want to toss $1k + at a motor that you may or may not need? If you get a salvage motor, how do you know it is any better than what ya got?

There is this https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/cto/d/1985-mercedes-benz-300-turbo/6693215601.html
But i think that's unnecessary at the moment.

97 SL320 · #25 09-12-2018, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renaissanceman

Run it for 500 miles or so, and then pull a sample and send to blackstone. Cheapest, easiest way to know what is starting to go or has already gone.

If your bearings are toast, lead should be off the scales.

I've repaired, rebuilt, replaced countless engines across many makes and have even put edgy stuff together just to see how long it would last. The only way to determine bearing condition is to pull the oil pan and inspect bearings. The engine might be easily reparable at present but if driven, the crank shaft can be damaged to the point it needs reground.

A couple of notable examples where an oil sample would not be of value.

1963 Ford truck 292 Y block V8

Circa 1992 the oil pump shaft twisted off stopping the oil pump. Truck was driven about 10 miles without oil pressure.

Pulled the oil pan for a full bearing inspection. Rod bearings showed typical wear for mileage, main bearings showed increased wear at front with less wear further back.

The front few main bearings had material transferred from lower shell to upper shell and some material stuck to the crankshaft. This material was easily flaked off the crank, polished and all bearings changed.

When I closed shop in 97 the truck was still running fine. If the above work was not done, the engine would have failed. This engine likely survived without oil pressure due to some splash lubrication , driver taking it very easy and a Slick 50 Teflon treatment it had. The bearings did have a slippery coating on them when removed.

2000's VW Jetta turbo 4 cyl Circa 2010

Car owner smashed cast aluminum oil pan and all oil was instantly lost. They drove a few miles to their destination.

Pulled the oil pan, started pulling bearing caps and found good bearings, except for one main. Aluminum started to stick to the crankshaft due to lack of lube. ( These like most modern engines use aluminum bearings )

Flaked the aluminum off, polished the crank and reassembled the engine. Last I heard it was still fine. If the oil pan was just replaced and driven, the engine would have failed. Instead it was able to be repaired at low cost.

renaissanceman · #26 09-12-2018, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

I've repaired, rebuilt, replaced countless engines across many makes and have even put edgy stuff together just to see how long it would last. The only way to determine bearing condition is to pull the oil pan and inspect bearings. The engine might be easily reparable at present but if driven, the crank shaft can be damaged to the point it needs reground.

A couple of notable examples where an oil sample would not be of value.

1963 Ford truck 292 Y block V8

Circa 1992 the oil pump shaft twisted off stopping the oil pump. Truck was driven about 10 miles without oil pressure.

Pulled the oil pan for a full bearing inspection. Rod bearings showed typical wear for mileage, main bearings showed increased wear at front with less wear further back.

The front few main bearings had material transferred from lower shell to upper shell and some material stuck to the crankshaft. This material was easily flaked off the crank, polished and all bearings changed.

When I closed shop in 97 the truck was still running fine. If the above work was not done, the engine would have failed. This engine likely survived without oil pressure due to some splash lubrication , driver taking it very easy and a Slick 50 Teflon treatment it had. The bearings did have a slippery coating on them when removed.

2000's VW Jetta turbo 4 cyl Circa 2010

Car owner smashed cast aluminum oil pan and all oil was instantly lost. They drove a few miles to their destination.

Pulled the oil pan, started pulling bearing caps and found good bearings, except for one main. Aluminum started to stick to the crankshaft due to lack of lube. ( These like most modern engines use aluminum bearings )

Flaked the aluminum off, polished the crank and reassembled the engine. Last I heard it was still fine. If the oil pan was just replaced and driven, the engine would have failed. Instead it was able to be repaired at low cost.

I totally get that -- In this case, however, the engine is pretty well shot/worn out before the oil issue happened, correct?

There's no harm to pulling the pan and looking at the bearings, but if this is a situation where the engine will be replaced regardless of what the bearings look like due to other issues (low compression, etc) then there is no harm in running it.

vstech · #27 09-12-2018, 10:45 AM

Noise could be turbo contact from oil loss...

Pull the intake hose off turbo WITH ENGINE OFF and feel for play, and look for wear marks.

97 SL320 · #28 09-12-2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renaissanceman

I totally get that -- In this case, however, the engine is pretty well shot/worn out before the oil issue happened, correct?

Completely junk and worn out but rebuildable are two different situations.

As an example, I've seen lots of instances where someone drove an automatic trans to total failure ( or hammered on it ) with the mentality " everything is going to be replaced in a rebuild so who cares? " In the end is costing them more as most of an auto trans is reused in a rebuild with failed " hard parts " billed accordingly.

I've seen box truck transmission run to the point of total loss. In this case the owner paid for an off the shelf rebuild ( Jasper ) AND a core charge for a very hard to find transmission. The total was about 2X of if he just stopped driving when there was a problem.

Our guys engine was worn but rebuildable prior to oil loss, based on the second vid, it is still likely to be rebuildable as any knocking isn't louder than typical diesel sounds yet.

If the engine is run to failure, it might suddenly kick a connecting rod out of the block. This will erase any hopes of repairing this engine and leave our guy stranded, in the left lane desperately trying to coast across 3 lanes of traffic to the shoulder.

Another issue is metal will circulate through the oiling system after a bearing failure. This can damage an otherwise good turbo , camshaft , oil pump. Caught now there might not be much metal through the oiling system.

I've done a fair amount of what I call " Junkyard Rebuilds " This consists of taking a worn but not knocking engine and freshening it up. I do this when a used engine can't be found / car still has life but isn't worth a full on rebuild. Basically I'm making a good used engine. This is may be possible for our guy.

If our guy comes across a used engine, I'd still go through it given it's age / miles so why not start with an engine we already have?

Some will make a big fuss that this counters the MB mother ship factory manual. I'd ask how many of these people take a high mile running engine apart just to make sure the measurements have not exceeded specs. . . .

General scope of work and not engine specific.

Send crank out for crack check , measurement , polish. If slightly undersized that is OK.

Reuse connecting rods, check pin bushings ( replace it loose ) pistons ( unless new is very inexpensive. ) , surface grind oil pump cover . ( replace pump if inexpensive )

Grind valves and seats, loose guides are OK however the center exhaust valves tend to suffer the most wear so you probably , resurface cylinder head ( if aluminum , still a good idea with iron )

Replace rod and main bearings , all seals and gaskets , timing chain ( replace sprockets if inexpensive ) , chain guides / belt + idler , water pump.

vwnate1 · #29 09-13-2018, 11:50 AM

Agreed, this is a good thing to do and used to be very common but these days no one seems to understand it .

In any case, the O.P. is planning to replace the engine so moot I think .

renaissanceman · #30 09-13-2018, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

In any case, the O.P. is planning to replace the engine so moot I think .

This was my point this whole time which seems to have been missed. If you're not planning to rebuild, run it. If it keeps going without getting worse, pull an oil sample to see if anything is broken or not.