W123 300d Lost All Oil On Road Trip - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vwnate1 · #31 09-13-2018, 10:21 PM

There are those who 'get' it and actually do automotive repair and those who tinker and / or play at it .

Both are perfectly valid .

Then there are many who are on such a shoestring budget they have to make do and experiment , I was in that group when I was young, interesting and educational, not always fun though .

gottarollwithit · #32 09-13-2018, 10:35 PM

Mechanically, this makes sense. This is how you do right by the car and ensure good reliability.
However, not everyone has the means to pull the motor and rebuild it. That's a colossal undertaking, even for an advanced DIYer. Remember, the car is already at Garrett's place...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

Completely junk and worn out but rebuildable are two different situations.

As an example, I've seen lots of instances where someone drove an automatic trans to total failure ( or hammered on it ) with the mentality " everything is going to be replaced in a rebuild so who cares? " In the end is costing them more as most of an auto trans is reused in a rebuild with failed " hard parts " billed accordingly.

I've seen box truck transmission run to the point of total loss. In this case the owner paid for an off the shelf rebuild ( Jasper ) AND a core charge for a very hard to find transmission. The total was about 2X of if he just stopped driving when there was a problem.

Our guys engine was worn but rebuildable prior to oil loss, based on the second vid, it is still likely to be rebuildable as any knocking isn't louder than typical diesel sounds yet.

If the engine is run to failure, it might suddenly kick a connecting rod out of the block. This will erase any hopes of repairing this engine and leave our guy stranded, in the left lane desperately trying to coast across 3 lanes of traffic to the shoulder.

Another issue is metal will circulate through the oiling system after a bearing failure. This can damage an otherwise good turbo , camshaft , oil pump. Caught now there might not be much metal through the oiling system.

I've done a fair amount of what I call " Junkyard Rebuilds " This consists of taking a worn but not knocking engine and freshening it up. I do this when a used engine can't be found / car still has life but isn't worth a full on rebuild. Basically I'm making a good used engine. This is may be possible for our guy.

If our guy comes across a used engine, I'd still go through it given it's age / miles so why not start with an engine we already have?

Some will make a big fuss that this counters the MB mother ship factory manual. I'd ask how many of these people take a high mile running engine apart just to make sure the measurements have not exceeded specs. . . .

General scope of work and not engine specific.

Send crank out for crack check , measurement , polish. If slightly undersized that is OK.

Reuse connecting rods, check pin bushings ( replace it loose ) pistons ( unless new is very inexpensive. ) , surface grind oil pump cover . ( replace pump if inexpensive )

Grind valves and seats, loose guides are OK however the center exhaust valves tend to suffer the most wear so you probably , resurface cylinder head ( if aluminum , still a good idea with iron )

Replace rod and main bearings , all seals and gaskets , timing chain ( replace sprockets if inexpensive ) , chain guides / belt + idler , water pump.

unkl300d · #33 09-15-2018, 09:27 PM

Pick and pull Oaklnad has two 300D cars.
a 1980 wagon and 1983 sedan.

engines available w trans.
good luck!

unkl300d · #34 09-15-2018, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottarollwithit

Just run it the way it is. Might not be nearly as bad as you think. These motors are the epitome of tough and it might surprise you by running a good bit longer.

Just because oil isn't on the dipstick does not mean that oil inside is nonexistant.

Have you changed your oil/filter yet?? Is there a bunch of metal in your oil?? In the mean time, while it is still working, figure out where to get a motor if you end up needing it. Garrett up in Sac is pretty resourceful...

good idea. change the oil and filter a couple of times in a shorter interval in order to make sense of it.
Use heavier oil if the ambient temp allows it... like straight 30 weight...observe.
good luck !

How much oil did you drain from the pan and filter after the 'problem'?

BillGrissom · #35 09-15-2018, 09:43 PM

Can anyone explain how most of the oil could be forced out the dipstick tube? The lower oil pan is much lower. Since the dash gage still showed pressure, the bearings are likely fine. The camshaft bearings get starved first. If anything, the turbo bearings may be worn, but not hard to rebuild and kit is <$20.

unkl300d · #36 09-16-2018, 02:06 PM

In this diesel forum I have often read comment that the oil pan holds lots of oil and even if the dip stick reads very low to nil, there is still enough oil to circulate.
Of course not for max efficiency but I imagine to say that its not a lost cause...

So, OP, can you report back?
This is interesting.

SonnyMorrow · #37 09-17-2018, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unkl300d

In this diesel forum I have often read comment that the oil pan holds lots of oil and even if the dip stick reads very low to nil, there is still enough oil to circulate.
Of course not for max efficiency but I imagine to say that its not a lost cause...

So, OP, can you report back?
This is interesting.

I think most of you are correct in saying that I did not spin any bearings, but I'm not 100% certain. Though there is definitely a knock somewhere in the engine, not sure where. I did not drop the oil pan or drain the remaining oil to check how much was left at the time. I simply topped the oil off and I have been driving it occasionally around town. I know I should drop the pan and inspect what is in there and replace the oil filter, but I have not got around to it yet. Irresponsible of me I know, but I have so many things going on at the moment.

Anyways, the bottom line is that I lost enough oil via the dip stick tube that the engine began stalling and then knocking. I doubt I lost all of the oil, but I'm certain that all that did come out of the engine exited via the dipstick tube. Super weird I know, but the after market breather hose was absolutely kinked. Not a drop of oil was present on the dipstick when I checked the following day of the incident. But Garrett from Sacramento helped me conclude that the breather hose was the culprit, and he is well versed in Om617s.

97 SL320 · #38 09-17-2018, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonnyMorrow

I think most of you are correct in saying that I did not spin any bearings, but I'm not 100% certain. Though there is definitely a knock somewhere in the engine, not sure where. . . . .

Anyways, the bottom line is that I lost enough oil via the dip stick tube that the engine began stalling and then knocking.

When engine friction exceeds available engine power, it will stall. Given 6 qt of oil was lost and knocking increased, bearings were starving for oil / locking up and will be damaged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonnyMorrow

I doubt I lost all of the oil, but I'm certain that all that did come out of the engine exited via the dipstick tube. Super weird I know, but the after market breather hose was absolutely kinked.

Blow by gasses from worn piston rings ( or even normal operation ) need to exit somewhere when the main breather is blocked. There is a lot of splash going on in the crankcase so oil will be carried up the dipstick tube even if it is above static oil level.

Also, oil burning will increase when crankcase pressure is high ( Like from a blocked breather hose ) as piston ring seal decreases when above / below ring pressure differential is reduced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonnyMorrow

Not a drop of oil was present on the dipstick when I checked the following day of the incident.

Oil lower than the stick isn't the issue, for engines in general 2 qt low will put you off the stick. 2 Qt low on a 5 qt system , while not optimal , isn't a short term problem.

The issue is the oil was at least 6 qt low ( and I'm assuming that 6 took the level to full ) . What is the capacity for an oil change _without_ draining the oil filter / oil cooler?

My post posts are based on seeing hundreds failed engines and decades of repairing / rebuilding engines across many makes. Your choice is to take advice from those with professional experience or those that have never rebuilt an engine.

How about posting you plight here and see what they say https://speedtalk.com/forum/ This is a mostly engine building forum where some very high end racing engine builders post.

unkl300d · #39 09-17-2018, 11:26 AM

Turbo engine oil capacity with filter is 7.9 qts

non turbo w filter is 6 qts

97 SL320 · #40 09-17-2018, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unkl300d

Turbo engine oil capacity with filter is 7.9 qts

non turbo w filter is 6 qts

Thanks.

Do we know for where the 1.9 Qt lives in the turbo car? 1.9 Qt seems a bit high for an oil cooler + lines. ( If the turbo motor has an oil cooler and non turbo not. ) Perhaps oil cooler + larger oil pan / oil filter housing?

Given this car has had a past engine swap, we don't know if the cooler is there or what parts were mixed matched.

If we assume the oil filter holds 1 qt, the non turbo car would be completely out of oil and the turbo car down to 0.9 . I'd be sort of OK idling an engine at 2 QT but not at higher RPM / cornering.

Oil in an oil cooler does not count as if the pan is empty, nothing is moving around.