This is getting expensive
 

As the title says.......

After finding a bad power steering pump over the weekend I decided to look at replacing the brakes while the car is off the road waiting for the new pump and belts.

After digging into the brakes, I found two calipers leaking fairly decently, one sticking caliper, and one with the piston partially cocked in the bore. These look like the original calipers, so I an biting the bullet and replacing all four along with the rubber brake hoses and parking brake shoes.

So, what started out as a simple oil change and tire rotation has turned into a SPENDY, but needed maintenance evolution.

Yup, nothing like good old mission creep when you work on these older cars. I feel for ya!

Going all the way is the best method of dealing with an old braking system. It's the old "weakest link" syndrome if you try to half-arse it otherwise.

If you don't already do it, a yearly flush of the brake fluid is a good preventative measure.

Truth is, you love it. Otherwise you'd drive a Camry.

Kitting the calipers can save some dollars. Especially in Canada. Remans are not too expensive in the states fortunately.

Though really in the overall picture. Compared to the the cost of owning some cars this is small potatoes. Remember to do the brake hoses if you think they are due as well. Almost anything you can do at home is almost pennies on the dollar versus dealing with problems on the road while away from home.

I find it easy to spend other peoples money as well. I think the wife taught me that one.

Actually it also is good for the mind to know you have reconditioned a very old brake system under you as well. .

I am currently waiting for a piston retractor for the rear calipers to arrive in the mail. They caliper pistons have to be rotated as they are compressed on my Volkswagon.

Unfortunatly the tool I need is not all that common. Most piston retraction kits do not have the right tool for Volkswagon. If I order in the single adapter that fits the volkswagon brake pistons. It is about the same price as the 22 piece set on Amazon for a little over 20.00 American delivered.

There are not many deals out there today. Still if one thinks they will be doing rear brakes on more modern cars. This kit with the good reviews is far better than the average loaner kits. I also do not expect thatcurrent price to hold. Works out to about a dollar a piece if you include the good plastic storage container.

Also remember some cars now have to electronically have their computors set into service mode before doing brake work. Started with some brands in 2008.

I think that’s true for MB models with SBC as early as 2003.

Sixto
98 E320s sedan and wagon
02 C320 wagon

Sad evolution of braking systems. At least people should check if it is required before doing brakes on their newer cars. Not so new either with the correction posted.

Brake work is a large component of car service today. Unfortunatly the commercial shops are really overcharging to pay their bills. Doing it yourself enables lower costs for the parts usually as well. For the same quality of parts.

Everyone has to make a living. I have no issue with that. At the same time some garage bills seem to go well beyond that.

Fortunately there are plenty of videos on how to do them properly yourself. It is not rocket science. At the same time not all the detail items are intuitive.

$aving Dollar$
 

If your brakes work O.K. now, it's time to buy a nice pressure bleeder and flush the system out then repeat every two year or every time the brake fluid in the resivoir turns black .

Doing this will most often negate _ever_ needing to replace the calipers .

Expensive? ha! You're just getting started;)


A sorted pre 95 MB is a wealthy mans car. Have you tried inspecting the caliper bores and pistons to see if they are truly finished?

Yep, the bores look pretty worn, and two of them have some scratching and pitting.

I agree.
I talk to many MB mechanics wearing coveralls when I go into dealerships for parts that I install.


That's when I found out that one local dealer charges $265/hour for work.


Some stuff is overdone. A guy I know went into a dealership to get the AC checked since the cooling power was a little low. This was on a 1980 240D. It cost him $3800!


That's more than the car's worth. I would have told them that they did work not required and requested. They supposedly replaced the AC compressor but it didn't look replaced when I saw it a week later.


The guy took it to the state's Bureau of Automotive Regulation.


We'll see what happens.

Your freind took a 1980 240D to a dealer for A/C work and they didnt refuse? Thats quite a hard pill to swallow. They shoo away W210 owners now, I cannot imagine them agreeing to wrench on a W123 chassis.

The price of repair of brakes would be similar to any other car I believe, If you think this is spendy - try pricing out good brake replacements for a toyota/lexus. As mentioned above this can be averted if you keep on top of brake fluid flushes.

Most including myself just do not attend to changing the brake fluid often enough. As things increase in cost this is not the brightest approach to keeping the costs of repairs needed lower. Down the road.

Unfortunatly Mercedes calipers have tended to be expensive in Canada versus the United States. Shipping costs have also risen to the point that importing them makes them expensive as well.

Bleeder screws are rough to deal with up here in the eastern Canadian rustbelt. I developed a habit of putting a dab of grease on them. Sliding a snug fitting small length of hose over them and adding another dab of grease. Usually with fuel line rubber hose.

As long as the caliper body is cast steel. We have systems using heat to get them loose most of the time if needed.

The aluminum calipers are in vogue today. I understand that less un sprung weight is better. At the same time the bleeder screw issues will be worse especially as they age here. Aluminium being softer will possibly make cores for rebuilding subject to rejection more often for re kitting. I have heard but not verified some calipers for GM trucks are in the 500.00 range for a rebuilt unit up here.

No matter what a shop charges there will be those that complain it is too much. How about putting a $ figure and parts list against what you think it should cost for a specific repair on a specific car.

Some shops have decided that if they are going to be brow beaten by customers, they might as well make it worth the abuse.

How about opening up your own shop and charging less than the too much shops? Should be an easy money maker no?

What car brand and what specific dealer?

Do you have a list of parts , work they did? How do you know they did work not required?

Do you have a copy of the work order / service request? How do you know the work was not requested?

[QUOTE=strelnik;3856539]Parts listing?

This car didn't get $ 3,800 in repairs while the guy was in the waiting room. There is much more to the story. My first reaction would be to make sure the repair was really Three thousand, eight hundred dollars and not Three hundred, eighty dollars.

What state? This should be public record with the case is closed. I'll be waiting for the final report and I'm sure you will have the integrity to follow through.

Actually this is just common sense especially today. Some places have what are brutal add on charges. If you see them on the estimate is your only possibility to argue them before the work.

Taken to extremes. A Canadian took his car to the Vancouver Mercedes franchise. Looks large and profitable in the video. The sunroof had stopped working.

After one of their senior technicans had examined the issue in the back shop. The service manager told the customer it was all bad and needed replacement. Six to seven thousand dollars. Plus they were absolutely certain all the work was needed. When questioned. It was not discussed but he may have had to pay a diagnostic charge for the back shop time.

So the customer declined and took the car to an independent. One hundred and fifty dollars to repair. . So he went back to the stealer ship with a hidden video camera and confronted them. Interesting.

It is still up on utube I believe and why that franchise has not paid him off to pull it is beyond me. I have no doubt they have attempted to somehow or they are pretty stupid.

We put people in jail for stealing fifty dollars from a corner store. For major theft of thousands of dollars from the public this place probably pulls it off on a regular basis and walks. All the time.

His video proves the issue was real so they could not sue for deflamation. It also indicates that Mercedes does not really care what their dealers do in essentially defrauding buyers of their products. Not many labels do.

Only one I know of where the brand will pull the franchise if they are operating in a criminal fashion. There may be some others I am just unaware of.

Stunning to watch the way people are in a rush to burn up their brakes. Part of one of my normal commutes involves several miles of an expressway, with 50 mph speeds allowed on approx half mile stretches between traffic lights. Can't tell you how often I'll see one go red a few hundred yards out, I'll take my foot of the gas to coast to a near stop only to see the car behind me get up on my bumber, then accelerate while going around me only to hit the brakes to stop for the red light.

One of my hobbies is to maintain as much momentum as possible as I sail through the newly turned green light. I often change lanes to let the fools behind me go by.

Every time you step on the brake, you are wasting fuel. Not only do I like to coast into lights, I maintain larger following distances to allow me more coasting time.

Got a link to this?

Get the rebuild kits and rebuild your calipers. No reman will touch the quality of the original, and even a novice can do a far better job than someone slapping stuff together on a production line with poor condition sandblasted parts. I have done this many many times on different 123s.

It will also save you some money.

It is no secret the stealership makes the majority of its money from repairs and part sales. It appears they think because they are servicing Mercedes Benz, they have geen granted an automatic license to screw the customer out of big $$$$$$$$. Yes, we expect to pay extra because MB is a top tier car but we don't expect to be robbed!!

The #1 reason I'm into this forum is due to getting screwed over by both the stealership and various indies who didn't appear to be properly trained and/or motivated to repair mercedes benz automobiles. I could go for hours about all the repairs/parts replacements indies have screwed up on the cars over the past 25 years. Everytime I look at the invoices for their crap work, I get sick.

IMHO, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find a competent, reasonably priced indy.

Also excessive hard braking leads to rotor warp. I just put new rotors and pads all around and OMG the braking is so smooth now. I was worried I had a more serious front end problem but looks like warped rotors was the main part of it.

If I see a light go red and I know I'll still be at speed at the red if I start coasting I'll give the brakes a quick easy pump so it will take me longer to get to the light. If I do it right I still have 15 to 20 mph going when the light turns green. Amazing that people don't get that you save gas and brakes with a little bit of thinking.

If you haven't found a good shop in 25 years, perhaps you need to change the way you go about selecting a shop. It is pretty obvious that past selection parameters are not working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan (Post 3857083) IMHO, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find a competent, reasonably priced indy.

Yes, it is becoming more difficult to find a good shop because many people that can work at a high level are fleeing the automotive industry for other lines of work.

A good shop isn't going to work cheap and they shouldn't have to compete with a guy taking on work on the side.

What do you consider a reasonable hourly rate? Should a shop make a markup on parts? If so, how much? .

Using one of your cars as an example, what should a shop charge to replace front brake pads, pack bearings , resurface rotors?

You are talking to husky. Abandon reason

Competent Mechanics
 

" IMHO, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find good, competent mechanical expertise in the world of MB. "

First. you're never humble so let's dispense with that nonsense :rolleyes: .

I'm a Journeyman Mechanic and damn proud of my life's work and learning, I'm still learning and will be until the day I die .

Regardless of make or brand, I find *very* few competent Mechanics and many less honest ones because it's so easy to rake in the ca$h in this trade if you're DIShonest .

I have many people asking me to work on their vehicles, I refuse almost all because I'm not trained on modern systems and so don't want to learn by making mistakes .

I feel your frustration in trying to find a good, honest Mechanic , I know a few and they're always busy ~ *very* busy .

Don't loose hope and don't go in expecting to be cheated, that's setting your self up to lose .

Expen$ive, You Say ?
 

So ;

You bought a 34 year old machine with 330,000 + miles on it and you're how far down the rabbit hols ca$h wise now ? .

If you're under $5,000 you're not anywhere near 'expensive' unless it's a rusty hulk .

I'm elderly and on a fixed budget yet I know my Mercedes parts $ are well spent, cheaper than a monthly new car payment for a tin can I won't like in two years....

A Mercedes-Benz is still, basically, a car. It shares similar components and assemblies with many other cars varying only in details. Those that obsess over allowing only "Mercedes trained" mechanics touch their cars are foolish I think. There is no mysterious MB karma to most jobs. Exhaust, brakes, suspension/steering and other systems can be adequately repaired or serviced by any professional that takes pride in their work.

Many of us on this forum do the simpler servicing and repair jobs ourselves. Except for the few who are pro/retired MB mechanics with an extensive tool collection the jobs requiring a lift or other pro shop-only tools we sometimes find ourselves faced with can be a job too difficult to attempt. In those cases, many head for the MB dealer for help. My friends, I'm here to tell you that is seldom to never necessary and as some have found it is counter-productive.

Those of us with old cars often find the dealer will offer an outrageous price estimate for a seemingly common repair. I think that the dealerships don't want to repair the old cars and the estimated cost is intended to discourage. They often don't have the experienced old techs, parts and sometimes the tools. They don't want to tie up a lift, the space and a tech to service our old junk.

In the eight years I have owned my 1983 300CD daily driver, I have never gone to a dealer for repair or parts. Those jobs I don't want to tackle (basically anything requiring me to lie on my back under the car for a long time) I take to a trusted independent general repair shop with whom I have developed a working relationship over many years.

My newer Benz, a 2008 E320 that is my wife's ride, goes to the Benz dealer we bought it from. We are blessed with a competent, honest dealer shop that has never overcharged or tried to upsell us for work not needed.

To summarize this overlong post. my advice is to find a good independent shop and develop a working relationship with them. Don't obsess over "MB-trained" and don't worry if you see a Ford on the next lift.

We had a 97 Saturn that wasn't being used and I was giving it to a friend. I priced (at full retail) all brake parts (pads, calipers, hoses, disks, hardware) and struts then asked the local Midas for a quote. It came back at ~ $1,000 over the price of the parts for brakes ONLY. Shop rate is $100/hr. I declined as simply doing brakes was more than the car was worth.


Strangely, there are people that LOVE those cars and treat them like we do our old diesels. I never got the same joy driving the Saturn as I do the SD.

No one can predict how long a pipe will last in a rusted state. If the trans guy told you the pipe was rusted, needed replaced but it lasted another year, would you say the trans guy was trying to rip you off?

I wish I had taken photographs of it so you could see the extent of the damage. The entire exhaust pipe was full of rust and had obviously been in that condition for quite some time. There were other issues with this particular indy which I won't go into here which is why he is short one less customer.......:D:D

I'm still waiting for a link to this vid.


I'm still waiting for a reply to my post 17

When I looked for the video again it appears to have been pulled. What transpired for this to happen is any ones guess. I saw it as damaging to that dealership as it was linked to the dealerships customers comments on the net.


I know if I had owned the dealership I would have paid him to pull it.

I'm still waiting for the results of the $ 3,800 AC repair listed in post 11 and copied here.

I hope you're not holding your breath :rolleyes: .

Only to avoid the stench of unsubstantiated $ 3,800 claims.

Well, we are pushing 2 1/2 months since strelnik posted a tale of how someone took their 1980 240D into a dealer with weak AC , left with a $ 3,800 bill ( see post 11 ) and then supposedly went to the state's Bureau of Automotive Regulation.

Strelnik stated he would have told the dealer that they did work not required and requested but has offered zero proof the dealer did work not required / requested. I want to know how strelnik is so sure the work was not needed , requested and the AC bill was actually $ 3,800.

So far strelnik has not responded to my posts asking for more details to substantiate the the claim. I call bs since he nor the owner have made any attempt to follow through.

Welp, I have to replace the alterenator in my 300SDL. The belt tensioner assembly, shut of valve, and remove a broken extractor in my E300. I have to re tap because I'm sure the threads are ruined.

It's getting extremely expensive for me.

Just bite the bullet and pay two ATE calipers and install them with fresh hoses, brake pads,discs and fluid. Most of the w123 calipers has lived way over the life of any car in that Era.

If you are doing new calipers, might as well order the gen2 w126 stuff and get vented rotors with bigger diameter up front. You do need 15" wheels though, so you could add some wheels to the bill :-)

I don't see how maybe $60 per caliper after core refund can be considered spendy. The pads and rotors needed replacement anyway. Very economical compared to virtually any car out there. Even the chinese bundt 15" wheels are pretty cheap on ebay.

What I think is nuts are people who only put OEM parts from the dealership on their cars .

Jeeze, talk about F U money!

One of my dreams is to own a shop where one bay I do a YouTube channel on cars other shops screwed up. We determine if the shop was trying to rip off the person, incomperent, or both. Name and shame.

Southern California mechanics are the worst.

The best part is, I'm comfortable working on old and modern cars. The troubleshooting gets easier with the right computer equipment.

_BAD_ Shops/Mechanics
 

So true ! .

Fully 90 % of the works I do involve fixing DPO / DPM bodges .

When I worked for L.A.P.D. in the 1980's we had auto fraud cars that were *pristine* ~ they'd send them out to bad shops and do teardowns after wards ~ wood screws in the carby, and worse :eek: .

Something to remember, there is a difference between fraud and incompetence. The first is intentional and the second from a lack of knowledge.

It is unfortunate there isn't a department that goes after "customers" that intentionally defraud shops with bad checks, swapped parts , sabotage.

Agreed, when I ran my own shop I occasionally got dishonest customers too, one in particular was from the California Consumer Protection Board who thought he'd skin me for a free rebuilt engine, wrong .

Being honest is occasionally more work than cheating but some people just cannot be honest .

The is no pillow as soft as a clear conscience ;) .