Well sure, if Elon is going to give you free battery packs I really couldn't disagree.

Since you brought up the issue of fuel costs did you notice in the link you provided the detailed line item for the costs of electricity that Elon paid over the 400K service period? Looks like $41K to me?

In the same intercity service environment my E250 will deliver an easy 45 MPG, assuming a $3.50 per gallon diesel cost it looks like my fuel costs for 400K miles would be something like $31K? Did Elon's $41K include road taxes? It's not clear from the spreadsheet but it should also be pointed out that my $31K fuel expenditure has a built-in $6K road tax.

I'm an elitist because I drive diesel powered vehicles?

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98 Dodge-Cummins pickup (123k)
13 GLK250 (135k)
06 E320CDI (323K)
16 C300 (62K)
82 300GD Gelaendewagen (54K)

$41k in electricity would get you way further than 400k miles. At an average of 12 cents a kwh that'd be well over 340,000 kwh. Most tesla vehicles easily travel over 3 miles per kwh in normal driving....so the actual electric cost of 400k miles would be barely $13,500. Thats nearly 3 times less than it would cost to drive a very efficient diesel....excluding all the oil changes, transmission services, and other service needs.

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

Pot will be legal and broadly accepted. It'll work out.

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CC: NSA

All things are burning, know this and be released.

82 Benz 240 D, Kuan Yin
12 Ford Escape 4wd

You're four times

It's hard to

more likely to

concentrate on

have an accident

two things

when you're on

at the same time.

a cell phone.

www.kiva.org It's not like there's anything wrong with feeling good, is there?

The linked article gives the specifics of 2.5 kw/hr per mile with an electricity cost of .26 per Kw/hr. That comes up to $41K for 400K miles.

.26 per kw/hr seems high, but in California maybe not so much? Don't forget the road tax issue and keep in mind in inter-city service where power demands are higher in high speed travel situations.

The problem with the link/example is that high-speed long distance travel is exactly the environment where EV's don't work. If you do the math on Elon's 18 wheeler its gets even more absurd, it might work for local deliveries but it would be about as effective in replacing intercity/long distance work as a Li-on powered 737 would be in commercial passenger service. I'm sure Elon is working on that one as we speak.

Local/suburban travel is the niche where EV's can succeed.

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98 Dodge-Cummins pickup (123k)
13 GLK250 (135k)
06 E320CDI (323K)
16 C300 (62K)
82 300GD Gelaendewagen (54K)

Some States road tax on mileage (I think). I believe Washington State does. The Tesla has a 300 mile range. So, it depends on what is 'long distance'. My Chevy Volt does fine. Roughly 35-42 mpg. Nice to run on electricity, though.

Diesel was originally made to run peanut oil so any supermarket would have this.

Further on all these direct injected petrols/gas engines makes soot....

My non-rigourus guess analysis tells me that when all motor vehicles in the U.S.A. are battery electric we will not have the charging capacity to service them. Unless of course we produce more electricity with nuclear plants.

That will give the Gaia worshippers something else to whine about.

Any countrys Grid will fail when charging so many vehicles. Blackouts every evening when home? Its not Gundam lol.

I've read in several sources that the electricity used to refine oil into a gallon of gasoline would move an electric car a further distance than that gallon of gasoline would move the equivalent gas car. Then you still have to burn the gasoline.

http://electricmini.blogspot.com/2011/10/it-takes-lot-of-coal-to-make-gasoline.html

Cites at the bottom of the article.

It would seem that as EV usage goes up and gasoline usage goes down, existing grid capacity will be shifted away from oil refining and towards charging electric cars.

Building a bigger, stronger, more powerful grid is also not an insurmountable obstacle. Power companies would love to sell us all more power.

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617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap

Micro solar, and powerwall ...

Charging an electric vehicle no brainer... setup correctly, in most areas and costs diminish.
Yes, you need money, and lots of it, but grid tied solar with powerwall is a huge help to the grid, and zero additional load to the infrastructure.
It is my plan when I hit the lottery... or my company finally works out the employee conumdrum...

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

I looked into grid-tie solar. It ridiculously, hilariously, did not even begin to make sense.

It might for others, I just don't use enough power. Average bill under $100/mo. When my girlfriend and I are commuting in electric cars and charging at home, that might change.

I did put very-micro-solar on my "round-tuit" list. Couple lead acids and a charge controller and an inverter and a couple hundred watts worth of panels out on the shop. Enough to keep the basics rolling without having to fire up the generator.

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617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap

Frank,
The terms are often mixed up and this does cause confusion. Nitrogen oxides include Nitric Oxide (NO), Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) and Nitrous oxide (N2O). There are others too but those are the ones we usually talk about.

Nitrous oxide (N2O) is a greenhouse gas and considered 200+ times worse than CO2. Emissions into atmosphere result from agriculture, energy, industry and waste treatment. The energy part includes emissions from vehicles (13% of total)

This paper is based on research on actual vehicles. What is interesting is that conventional catalytic converters result in an increase in N2O tailpipe concentrations.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10473289.1992.10466971

(Frank, please excuse me chipping in on this! My background is in chemical engineering. I once designed a large scale plant to convert N2O emissions from an industrial plant into N2 and O2.). It was first of it's kind.)

Regarding future of diesels? The current and future emission regulations will kill them, even if legislators don't. You just have to read the various forums to realize that after a few years those Bluetec and other diesel exhaust systems are not reliable and are very costly to repair. Soon people will just stop buying them. Hard to know if, with EVs on horizon, car manufacturers will try to overcome the technological problems. I hadn't had any problems yet, but just sold my 2014 Bluetec. But I wiil drive my 85 300D for as long as I can! (Once I get my new alternator!)

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

in a nutshell : ICE vehicles = bad .

Electric powered vehicles = good .

Then of course, you're the average guy who thinks driving 350 miles in one day is O.K. and you're kinda stuck .

Me, I'm old and I work diligently at making my old vehicles (all of them) smoke free and low emissions too because low emissions = higher fuel economy = win/win .

Don't kid your selves, as soon as they crack the battery cell nut, our ICE powered anything, will be obsolete .

Hopefully after I'm gone but before my grand kids are too old .

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

Once electric cars cost come down to that of entry level vehicle such as a Civic, it's game over or is it?

Now that I think about it, internal combustion engines WILL still have a place, developing countries such as the Philippines, India etc will not be able to support electric cars imo.

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1998 Ford Escort ZX2 5 speed - 279,000 miles My Daily

1992 Mercedes 300D 2.5 202,000 - Pure junk
2000 Mercedes E320 Black - 136,000 miles - Needs repair

Don't forget to grease the screw and threads on the spring compressor.

I didn't read nor analyze the articles data. I'd still factor in the efficiencies to 'transport' both. Electricity does have an efficiency rate of some sort as to crossing wires and also transformed from ???V-3Phase to 220V-1phase. The demand on the grid is a fair concern.
I do own a Volt. As to performance, its between a compact and a mid-size.