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  #16  
Old 12-31-2018, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubyagee View Post
Free market will step in if the demand is there.
Too many on this list cry about parts pricing but none have stepped up to have parts remade at lower cost.

Others cry that MB is greedy and won't make parts for 40 year old cars. ( Gee, if they were really " greedy " don't you think they would make profitable parts that are supposedly in demand? )

One person made a big fuss that the dealer didn't have special tools to change a wheel bearing on hand for their 40 + year old car ! !

I've called many of these people to task but they run for the shadows. Near as I can tell , only 2 non complainers have recently made parts. One was the metal head key guy that got a quick lesson on manufacturability / costing and another person that made a small batch of window sliders.

The window slider guy says that the small batch will be the last. What complainer will pick up making these?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MB140300SD View Post
Try to buy radiator for a SDL, or how about an vin coded ignition cylinder for a 123, 124, and maybe 126 as well. Need to replace your vacuum pods? Many of those are NLA. I could go on and on.
What would you pay for these items?

If demand is high enough, parts will be remade. Perhaps it is time to start a thread of parts that have gone NLA / what a remade part should cost / people that are willing to remake them.

As for the rad, look towards a can make fit or a custom aluminum unit. Ig cylinder, move towards pulling the pins and hiding a kill switch somewhere. Vac pods , move towards adapting something else or even a few cables for manual operation.
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2018, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Near as I can tell , only 2 non complainers have recently made parts. One was the metal head key guy that got a quick lesson on manufacturability / costing and another person that made a small batch of window sliders.

The window slider guy says that the small batch will be the last. What complainer will pick up making these?
The small batch of sliders I made for sale was what was left over after fitting my car and gifting sets to friends with W126's. The intent was never to make a production item, merely to design a solution to replace the PATHETIC excuse that MB used on the LWB cars that eat the stock sliders for lunch. The left over batch had the cost tabulated to cover the raw material, postage, and my time to make them. The price seemed reasonable to me and seemed reasonable to the people who bought them, but my inbox was flooded with people whining about cost and wanting to trade parts I didn't need for cars I don't have or make deals. Sorry, Charlie, no sale.

I suspected that would be the outcome and had no intention of making another batch unless they were a hot item (one must test the waters...). I'll be happy to make sets for people I know, but they'll not be for sale again for the very reasons you mention. I did sell out of the batch I made, but it took a very long time to do and the whining about cost put me off offering any other services publicly. I do a lot of other rework on various systems and components on the 126 and 107 chassis cars, but you won't see my labor for hire here.

Even FREE is too expensive for some of the skin-flints on this forum. There was a thread running this past spring about engineering a way around the Klima relay on the diesel cars. MxFrank and I both posted schematics of how we'd do it using relays. His just used a generic ice cube similar to what many others have done in the past, mine was more of an electromechanical PCB idea to fit inside the Klima box and replicate most of the functionality of the Klima. I had people PM me asking if I'd design the card for them and specify components so they could build it themselves. Sorry folks, if you want custom labor, you're going to pay custom labor pricing (and you won't like what engineers charge per hour!).
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  #18  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:09 AM
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Free market has nothing to do with it and OEM demand for old cars has never been there.

Most car manufacturers discontinue parts support for their cars once the car itself has been discontinued for 8-10 years. Mercedes Benz built their brand on the idea that a Mercedes Benz will run forever even though parts support was a loss leader.

Right now, Mercedes Benz is clearly more interested in capturing as much of the new car market as possible.

To anyone that suggests that i'm complaining by pointing out the obvious, you're the kind of idiot that can't see something until it's right under your nose. Everyone I know including myself who has owned and driven a Mercedes Benz built in the 80's or earlier on a daily bases knows that while they can be dependable transport, they also spend a lot of time with hood up. Sure, there will some nice examples floating around, but your rickety diesel with 400k miles will be long dead.
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  #19  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 83w126 View Post
I think they have quit actually making parts for a lot of the old cars many years ago and they are still just sitting around. A lot of the time there are only a couple dozen or less left of some of the things I order for mine. The captive nuts that hold the guide rod brackets to the body on the w126 are soon to be NLA, and there is no usable substitute. Of course a suspension rebuild for a w126 costs more than one is worth now even if you do it yourself.
Tell me about it, it cost something like $3000 for front and rear suspension if using lemforder and MB parts. I'm a barebones DIYer. If I attempt a suspension rebuild the car will be scraped because I will screw up, add to that, I DON'T have a work bench, DON'T have a VISE, DON'T have a hydraulic press, nor the ball joint tool and spring compressor. No way I'm rebuilding it, adding in the cost of tools and you're looking at well over $4000
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  #20  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Again more *****ing and moaning. I've never encountered a part I needed that I couldn't find. If you think the market for parts is so tight for certain parts, start your own supplier. You'll be a milionare in no time.
I'm almost of the same opinion. Been at the w123 thing for 10+ yrs now and while some parts and problems are more difficult to resolve, there is always a fix. There are a few parts which create a major problem to resolve, like the NLA heater cores, but even that isn't insurmountable.

As yourself this, how much longer do you intend on running your w123? My goal is another 10 yrs or 100k mi while not breaking the bank on annual maintenance. Also ask yourself, how much are you willing to go without? When sunroofs, door locks, shut off valves, and other non critical items go NLA and die, can you live without their convenience? Hell, most of ours are 35yr old cars that are beat to crap with little salvage value left. I'm gonna upkeep mine til my wife mashes it enough times such that it no longer rolls!
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  #21  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:33 AM
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Yeah...um I’d say there are a lot of parts that are hard to find.

My latest w123 has forced me to go to the JY a lot more often than I used to. I also installed a URO windshield seal which is something I’d not risk in the past. Turned out great even though it wasn’t MB.

And, while I used to visit PNP and find three w123 cars at a time on the ground I now have to monitor three lkq yards in my county to find one car per month.

This situation clearly isn’t what it used to be.

As for demand I agree with D300. The demand is waning. Look at Craigslist and you see all the 300ds that just sit there. Only a few crazies like us want them. We are the market and nobody is getting rich serving us.

I happen to live down the street from the Mercedes Classics Center. I’ll tell you, there is a big difference between the 300sl gullwing owner’s getting batches of door seals made up and us. I walk in there and feel like I just stepped into an art restoration lab at a museum. No way am I going to pay the crazy prices to have batches of stuff made up for my $3000 diesel cars. I’m not Jay Leno trying to get brake drums casted for a 58 300sl.

One glimmer of hope is some of the aftermarket parts like sun visors that come out of Turkey. Probably for the North African cab market. I bet there is a business in there someplace...at least one guy is selling new sun visors on eBay.

I’m getting by. I use Pelican, eBay, Pick N Pull and I’ve gotten everything I need. It just is a bit harder than before. As long as it is fun I’ll still do it. I just rebuilt my existing oil cooler hoses because the replacement units available aren’t worth using.

There is nothing to worry about. We will all be goners at some point too. My kids are currently being forced to drive my diesels but they’re dying to break free and get corollas or accords. I told them if anything happens to me just post my cars up for $500 here for you guys and move on.
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
One person made a big fuss that the dealer didn't have special tools to change a wheel bearing on hand for their 40 + year old car ! !
Yes, that was me. I get it. I have since come to the realization that there are no shops left willing or capable of working on these cars due to their age (if a Mercedes-Benz dealership doesn't have the tools, who does, right?), which further reinforces the feeling that I never want to bother any shops with my business because they don't want it and I don't want to feel like a horrible person for daring to suggest that they touch my filthy old jalopy and risk getting grease on their sweater vest.

Changing gears, I find it really frustrating that cars aren't built with the same styling, quality, and simplicity to which they used to be. I don't drive a nearly 40 year old car (and ideally I'd be driving a 50 year old car as I want to daily drive a fintail again) for any reason other than I'm just not that happy with anything that's been on offer since. And dealing with parts not being available any longer and shops no longer being willing to work on them is discouraging.

I think car manufacturers change their cars too much. There is no way they can keep parts in stock when they keep changing the cars over and over again. Imagine how much easier it would be to buy new parts for old cars and used parts for them if they made them the same way for about 50 years.

One reason I like the fintails is that they have less parts than a W116, W123, or W126 or later, so there is less that can fail. I don't intend on ever buying a new car. I'll likely still be driving nothing but vintage Mercedes for the rest of my life or they become outlawed. I'll find a way to keep them on the road if the parts are no longer available. I don't care how much it will cost as long as I can afford it. I'd feel better spending more money on a vintage Mercedes than I'd spend on a new car.

The newest car I've ever owned is a 1980, and that's the newest I ever plan to own unless auto manufacturers start building them the way I like. But, I'm outnumbered and people buy what the auto manufacturers sell, and I don't think there are enough people like me or enough vintage car enthusiasts that vintage-style cars could be mass-produced and made at affordable prices again.

Companies' business practices and consumers' buying habits perplex me. I've thought about starting an automobile company that's based very closely on Mercedes-Benz's example, using what they've learned and doing my own research and spending lots of money on research and crash testing to come up with a few cars that have great vintage styling, high build quality, and very minimal parts while also being built with high regard to safety in handling, braking, and crash protection (but without all the electronic junk)--and then building them exactly the same forever so parts can always be available for the cars.

But, I am not convinced millions of people would buy these vehicles. At best, maybe some wealthy individuals or dedicated enthusiasts would buy them as hobby cars. And that's a problem, as they would need to be sold in high numbers for the price to be affordable to at least middle class Americans. I mean, if there were enough people willing to buy this type of car, there would be a LOT more vintage cars being daily-driven, to the point where vintage cars would be extremely valuable and hard to purchase; as soon as one went up for sale, it would be snapped up. There wouldn't be any ending up getting scrapped because the air conditioning stopped working.

Believe me, if Mercedes was still making fintail wagons or something, I'd buy one that was only a few years old and not bother with 40+ year old cars. It's just really unfortunate when car manufacturers don't make what you want and you can't get anything comparable these days to what they used to offer.
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Father Of Giants View Post
Tell me about it, it cost something like $3000 for front and rear suspension if using lemforder and MB parts. I'm a barebones DIYer. If I attempt a suspension rebuild the car will be scraped because I will screw up, add to that, I DON'T have a work bench, DON'T have a VISE, DON'T have a hydraulic press, nor the ball joint tool and spring compressor. No way I'm rebuilding it, adding in the cost of tools and you're looking at well over $4000
If you replace everything yeah its expensive, you could probably get the shocks and springs too for $3k though. And about $500 in special tools ($180 for a press, $180 for a spring compressor, and $80 for the cheap ball joint tool). It actually isn't that hard of a job, if you are comfortable using the spring compressor that is the hardest part. There are actually a couple places that make aluminum SDL radiators now, mine has been replaced at some point and I found a decent spare in the junkyard though. The main thing that will be the end of them though is that no one really wants them anymore, the same ones have been for sale on Craigslist here for over a year. I saw a pretty clean 86 300SDL in the junkyard a couple days ago that someone had bought for the engine and scrapped the rest. It was certainly way nicer than mine is.
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
Believe me, if Mercedes was still making fintail wagons or something, I'd buy one that was only a few years old and not bother with 40+ year old cars. It's just really unfortunate when car manufacturers don't make what you want and you can't get anything comparable these days to what they used to offer.
It would cost a million dollars because they would have to make it specially for you and nobody else. The rest of us like the idea of surviving a minor collision and appreciate impact absorbing materials, crumple zones and lots of airbags. For the most parts, sensors and computers make an easier task of diagnosing a problem.

There's nothing wrong with progress, what i take issue with is the need for so many models. coupe, convertible, sedan, wagon in C, E and CLS, then GLK, GLE, GLA, GLS, GLE Coupe?? (WTF!!). That's a lot of baggage to carry. It's as if they sold Chrysler a decade ago, and turned right around and recreated it in-house.
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Check out the W114, W115 enthusiast website.
http://www.stroke8.org

http://www.w108.org

Join the Mercedes W108 group
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My 280SL restoration

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  #25  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 83w126 View Post
If you replace everything yeah its expensive, you could probably get the shocks and springs too for $3k though. And about $500 in special tools ($180 for a press, $180 for a spring compressor, and $80 for the cheap ball joint tool). It actually isn't that hard of a job, if you are comfortable using the spring compressor that is the hardest part. There are actually a couple places that make aluminum SDL radiators now, mine has been replaced at some point and I found a decent spare in the junkyard though. The main thing that will be the end of them though is that no one really wants them anymore, the same ones have been for sale on Craigslist here for over a year. I saw a pretty clean 86 300SDL in the junkyard a couple days ago that someone had bought for the engine and scrapped the rest. It was certainly way nicer than mine is.


Also W126's are getting hard to find used, they're are only a handful even with the search radius maxed out. They are getting cheap to acquire though.
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  #26  
Old 01-01-2019, 11:37 AM
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Keeping any 80's or older car is a challenge for anyone. Car makers want to forget about the days of simple, fixable cars. We're pretty much being left to our own devices if we want to keep these cars.

Very few mechanics even think about these cars. Lots of places outside the US manage to keep old cars going without so much resistance, although these mercedes diesels can be tricky compared to most. Sometimes you have to delete, fabricate, or just swap. This is why you have to have tools, stuff, and space to work - or a friend who does.

RUST and wrecks is generally what sends these cars to the junkyard, not lack of parts. I've got a lot of stuff from ********** for my W123. The Pelicanparts.com seems really good, but most of all, it's THE FORUM and the PEOPLE that keep these cars alive.


It's true, some part suppliers are phasing them, nothing lasts forever. Just be glad you still own some of the best cars ever made.
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  #27  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ykobayashi View Post
As for demand I agree with D300. The demand is waning. Look at Craigslist and you see all the 300ds that just sit there. Only a few crazies like us want them. We are the market and nobody is getting rich serving us.
Let's just clear the air on an important topic. MB's parts support is the ONLY reason that there are so many of these cars still on the road today. Just look at the volume of 70s and 80s cars from MB still on the road and driven daily compared to literally any other manufacturer selling in North America at the time. MB sold a tiny fraction of GM/Toyota/Honda/Ford/Chrysler/VW, but look at the percentage still going compared to the rest. That alone speaks volumes about how the cars were made and how they were supported over time.

Now these cars are 30+ years old. Expecting dealer-support counter levels of product support is ridiculous. Important parts are still being made, and they're readily available in the aftermarket. If your nose is stuck in the air too high to use an aftermarket part, sell your car while you can and buy something new. Please. For all of us. If you're rolling around in a 35 year old car as your daily and only car, make sure you're hoarding parts like a crazy person.

To the guy claiming it cost $3K to rebuild his suspension - get real. That's what you'd pay a shop. Having just done it on my SDL, I shelled out around $850 for full front and rear suspension and new springs using a combination of MB, Lemforder, and quality aftermarket parts. If you're looking to spend 4x that and be a brand snob, hey, it's your money! Just don't you dare whine about the price because YOU made the decision to pay it!
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  #28  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:47 PM
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Saw an AMC Eagle wagon on the road yesterday. Bet he has more NLA parts issues that we do.
There's one guy in my neighborhood that regularly drives his rusty Chevy Citation and another guy with a 1st generation electric Ford Escort. Doubt there were ever many of those on the road.
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  #29  
Old 01-01-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alabbasi View Post
It would cost a million dollars because they would have to make it specially for you and nobody else. The rest of us like the idea of surviving a minor collision and appreciate impact absorbing materials, crumple zones and lots of airbags. For the most parts, sensors and computers make an easier task of diagnosing a problem.

There's nothing wrong with progress, what i take issue with is the need for so many models. coupe, convertible, sedan, wagon in C, E and CLS, then GLK, GLE, GLA, GLS, GLE Coupe?? (WTF!!). That's a lot of baggage to carry. It's as if they sold Chrysler a decade ago, and turned right around and recreated it in-house.
That's the point I was making--I'm out of luck because there aren't enough people who would still buy cars built with the same styling, simplicity, and quality, and they would need to be able to sell millions of them to keep the price affordable.

I also like the idea of surviving a minor collision. Did you know that Mercedes have been built with crumple zones since the 1960s and collapsible steering columns and deformable steering wheels since August 1967? Are you suggesting that I'll likely die in a minor collision in anything but a brand-new car?

I'm not saying that new ones should be built with no improvements in safety. I want improvements in crumple zones and other safety features, but I don't want a whole bunch of electronic gadgets I don't need, an overabundance of plastic panels and parts, and a drivetrain that's so complicated that there is no hope of diagnosing it, repairing it myself, and keeping the car for more than ten years. I also think that new cars don't really have any art appeal.

Did you decide to sell off all your vintage cars? I see so many people on this forum posting about how these old Mercedes are deathtraps and a waste of time and money, and how they hope they all get outlawed soon... all the while they still own older cars. I don't see the reasoning behind this.
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DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 346,000+ Miles
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  #30  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Near as I can tell , only 2 non complainers have recently made parts. One was the metal head key guy that got a quick lesson on manufacturability / costing and another person that made a small batch of window sliders.

The window slider guy says that the small batch will be the last. What complainer will pick up making these?
I made Viton braided return line, but have yet to break even of the 1000m minimum order from the factory...eventually I will probably break even, though. I'd be interested in a thread on niche replacement parts -- I have an engineering intern that I need to keep busy this year, and if I can break even eventually on cost of manufacture and her time, I'll make parts given a certain (relatively low) level of demand. I don't mind floating a portion of the cost on something I'll eventually sell and recover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
The left over batch had the cost tabulated to cover the raw material, postage, and my time to make them. The price seemed reasonable to me and seemed reasonable to the people who bought them, but my inbox was flooded with people whining about cost...
What were you charging for the sliders and what chassis did they fit? I might be able to pick up production. I'd probably want to make any necessary revisions for ease of manufacture internally before making a run of them, however.

I'm a Mechanical Engineer, but I'm also an enthusiast, so I don't mind "donating" time occasionally to a project.
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