Really?

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Milan Brown 1979 240D, rebuilt OM617.952 turbo diesel, rebuilt 722.315 transmission (my only daily driver)

Instagram: @maximed93

New MB's have just as much (if not more) tank-like feel to them than the old ones did.

If you put a jack on the corner of any MB W210 onward.....and lift it up, it will lift the entire side of the vehicle off the ground with virtually no flex. Try that on a W126 or W123....not even close(w126 worse than w123). The more recent models like the W211....W212....W204....X204....etc, are rock solid. The doors on my GLK are heavier than they were on my W126....the vehicle weighs nearly 4,300lbs....thats a LOT more than even a LWB w126!

I love the old MB's and plan to get another W123 or similar at some point to have as a sunday car/tinkering car, but for now I am enjoying modern technology and performance.

One ride in an SL500 makes you forget about old slow cars pretty quick!

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

I lol'd perfect.

Maybe I've just been lucky but I haven't had any issues getting parts for my 77 240D. Its been a weekend/summer car for over 15 years now so I haven't had to rely on it for daily transportation. I recently acquired another V8 W124 to tinker with since the W123 is nearly perfect aside from the paint so I might begin to run into the NLA issues as I fix it up. I did use a pair of W124's as daily drivers 3-4 years ago but got tired of always needing to work on something so I bit the bullet and got a new truck. No regrets on getting something new and with a warranty.

New MB cars may have a quality feel to them but it is not substantiated by the actual build quality. Post war German engineering was genuinely of high caliber. Post 2000 German marketing has capitalized on that to an extreme degree while focusing on nice smelling soft dashed and generally substantial feeling vehicles. Unfortunately the electrical and greasy bits are no better than what other manufacturers use likely because many come from the same supplier.

Today German engineering is no more than a romanticization a past generation which no longer exists.

Fabricate the parts yourself. Do what the hot rodders do for their 1930s cars. I doubt there's any NOS Studebaker parts.

I need to learn CAD. There are plenty of places that will bid on your design and make a single part or a small run for you.

Especially for plastic trim pieces. A good 3D printer could achieve the same effect.

The last w123 rolled off of the assembly line 34 years ago. It's not like the halcyon days of the 2000s and 2010s where good NOS parts were easily orderable and old Benzs were a plenty in wrecking yards.

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-Typos courtesy of my mobile phone.

The older the car, the easier it is to fabricate parts. The newer the car, the more parts you have, the more complicated the function and shape, and the more difficult to reproduce. This is one of the reasons why I want to move away from the W116 and toward the W111.

Last I checked, there were lots of new old stock Studebaker parts available from SASCO (which is a consolidation of several warehouse and factory left-overs), and apparently much of the tooling still exists for making new parts when the supply runs out.

Yeah, I miss the old days. I say that a lot, but I just don't like the way the world is headed in a lot of ways. In some ways it's improving, but life as I know and love it seems to constantly get pulled out from under me and replaced with something I don't like.

I remember ten years ago when I lived in Washington, used Mercedes were practically free on Craigslist in great abundance and the wrecking yards were always packed full of them, so after work I would stop by the wrecking yard and load up my car with parts to use or resell. Practically every nut and bolt was available for any old Mercedes from The Classic Center. Now that the bubble has popped, SOME Mercedes can be had cheaply because they aren't as popular as they were during the waste vegetable oil craze, but a lot of the older cars are scarce and more expensive. The new and used parts supply is drying up and what's left is a lot of bargain brand new parts. I also live in Arizona now, where vintage Mercedes are MUCH scarcer and finding good interior parts is next to impossible as they're usually fried by the sun.

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Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

I also want to clarify that I agree that "heavier built" doesn't necessarily equate safer, as it's the design of the structure that generally dictates it. But, I DO value heavier built in that the parts tend to last longer and won't break if you're a little rough with them. It feels like they were meant to be what they are, and not made out of as little material as can be gotten away with to keep cost down.

It's like just about anything old--take bicycles. Look at the quality of Chicago-built Schwinn bicycles from the 1970s or older compared to a Taiwan-built one from the 1980s or newer. The Chicago Schwinns are works of art of unsurpassed quality with chrome that seems to last forever and like it will always polish up. The Taiwanese-built ones have poor quality steel, sloppy welds, bad paint, and chrome that rusts if you leave it out in the rain one time.

And if you want to go back to the mid 1950s, just about any bicycle, even the cheapest brands were of exceptional quality and had features like bonderized enamel paint instead of some cheap water-based stuff that fades if you get it wet and leave it in the sun. Even Huffy used to sell a decent product. Sure, the bicycles were heavy, but the attention to quality was so much higher. They were works of art. Now the Schwinn brand is a bargain-priced Walmart joke.

The same goes with appliances. My grandmother passed away a few years ago and her property is up for sale. The house was built in 1947 and has its original wall-mounted oven, and a stove from the 1930s. The refrigerator is a pink one from 1953. All of them still work! If something does go wrong with them, they can be rebuilt and restored. A lot of modern appliances are so fragile and complicated that there's not much point to fixing them; just throw it out and buy a new one.

__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

A few things on the old Vs new.

Many items were much more expensive in the old days in terms of real dollars due to manufacturing being more expensive. In order for this comparison to be accurate, run the numbers through the CPI calculator https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm Plug in some old days numbers.

Also have a look at this thread comparing old MB costs to current dollars, .. and compare the content of the car. Have a look at the option costs as well.
https://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/vintage-mercedes-forum/377456-1970-prices-cars-options.html

Overall, items get scraped Vs repaired due to a new one being so inexpensive to make but repair costs have not gone down. RE you still need to roll a truck , pay a guy , store parts. That $ 75 dollar weed wacker isn't likely to get repaired beyond a hose or two against a $ 50 Hr shop charge.

For the most part, items are much more efficient than in days past. That 1960 VW bus with " Save the earth " painted on the side is actually a huge polluter.

It also comes down to cost per mile or hour. Old stuff broke pretty frequently and due to high cost of purchase, it was economical to repair. Newer stuff is designed to have a relatively low purchase price, offer good service for a reasonable period of time and be efficient in operation.

In the old days, Mercedes and Sony were top level brands because they made product much better than other lower cost makers. As time went on, the lower end makers quality rose to near levels of these previously premium brands but the price didn't rise. When buying a TV, if a Sony and another brand are side by side and the picture looks the same, few are going to pay a premium for the Sony.

As a side note, most all brands of TVs these days are not made by who is on the sticker, many are just license agreements. One would hope that the more expensive TV is better but it might be the same as one costing much less.

I agree with this. Any Post 2005 German car out of warranty is a huge moneypit. For the repairs you can buy sometimes a nice W123 fully restored.

I've got a similar stash (maybe even larger), but definitely not as well organized. I imagine if I stripped the 7+ parts cars I have, I would need a thousand square foot building to hold it all, including hanging parts from the rafters. There are a few "hoarders" like us, and I am sure our collections will be worth MILLIONS one day (millions of what, I don't know :-)

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All Diesel Fleet
1985 R107 300SLD TURBODIESEL
2005 E320 CDI (daily)

LOTS of parts for sale!


EGR block kit
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/355250-sale-egr-delete-block-off-plate-kit.html

1985 CA emissions 617 owners- You Need This!
Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit for your 616/ 617 For Sale + Install Inst.

Sanden Instalation Guide (post 11):
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/367883-sanden-retrofit-installation-guide.html

As you can see by my sig, most of the current fleet of MB's in my family are 2007 or newer....with a couple 2001's in there. (also both of which have been entirely reliable) My 420SEL has been reliable but needy.

Currently mile for mile covered, the newer MB's have been WAY more reliable than many of our old ones (W123, W126, W124) were...more expensive? Yes.

Good examples are my brother's 2009 E350, and my 2015 GLK....he has put over 43k miles on that car with no repairs needed at all....just oil changes and a normal trans service. My GLK I've had half a year and has covered 6,000+ miles with zero issues either.

The newer vehicles are much more comfortable, much better at higher speeds, and handle large quantities of miles added to them seemingly with no wear/care. I have a records book for my 420SEL that shows it was repaired dozens of times in the 20 years the previous owner had it, total repair costs were around $25-26k during that time, it broke down 3 times needing a tow, ON TOP of the 61k they paid for the car......and it only traveled 112k miles in that time. By comparison my GLK250 has covered 74,000+ miles, and has needed no repairs in its history at all, nothing beyond regular maintenance....and it still feels like new/drives like new.

Modern cars are quite complex, but if you're good with technical equipment, it can be easier to work on them.

Its also still possible to get barebones rugged MB's.....the Metris. I own one, its great. Its like a W123 turned into a van and modernized itself. Only has the features that count, indestructible interior, simple suspension, basic powertrain. It will also leave any W123 and most W126's (and even newer models) in the dust with acceleration and handling....and its commercial van! Mine is brand new and it cost about the same as your average "mid level" spec'd Odyssey or Sienna. Amazing bang for the buck.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

Normally you dont see a modern MB with over 200K on it. Let alone 400+. Why? Because you can not repair some items at home. Your key fails 1000 bucks dealer only repair. Need a tie rod replaced on a 2010, dealer wants 1500 bucks. My wife bought her car basically new, it was 6 months old. It has just over 70K on it and while it's had minor issues, it has suffered the key issue, and has the MB classic wiring issue. I cant believe that they still cant may wire insulation that last more than a couple years. Sure they are great... till they need out of warranty repair and you might as well dump it for something else and let the next sucker deal with it. they are throw away cars now. The built quality on my 2005 Volvo xc90 2.5 awd is far superior less a few known issues like a pita fuel pump placement and sunroof drains that if not fixed with 2 bucks in hose can fill the truck with water, but the running gear. it reminds me of the old MBS. the 2.5 engine can easily go 500K miles. But dont get me started on parts for it... they have way to many variations. For example the aforementioned fuel pump... there are 6. not will work in the incorrect application and 3 fit.


Here is mine getting fixed last month.....



Yes, you have to remove the entire rear interior to get to the fuel pump and sending unit...


Now, in this case a certified mechanic did this job twice, having the truck for 3 months. and couldn't get it running. The Chattanooga Volvo dealer had it a month and claimed the "fuel tank is full of rust and will need to be replaced for 2700 bucks" (the fuel tank is plastic) there was no rust in it. I bought the truck not running for 800 after this and replaced the incorrect fuel pump and drive it daily now.


All I'm saying is the average person is not going to be able to fix things like this and the car becomes a throw away.


This was not the case in 85. The car was built to last a lifetime. It was built to be the best it could be in a time right before bean counters came and removed quality engineering in the name of saving a buck. It was built so the owner could repair it. and 80% of those repairs could be performed with the tools provided in the car.


Maybe I'm romancing it. But I actually get joy out of working on the 85. and all the older w123s. Something I dont get from working on the newer cars. sure I like to solve the puzzles, but when you need a computer just to turn of an SLS light because you unplugged the seat and connected the battery to check something else.... sigh....


It does however bring be back to the original question, how much longer do people like me have. NLA parts are becoming an issue and the writing is on the wall. There are plenty of groups that would be happy to see all these older cars just fade away. But, I do think the NLA issue will be the end of more of them than legislation.

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A quick search on Autotrader found me over 25 MB's ranging from 2000-2018 with between 200-300k+ on them still running and driving. They do exist! Several of them are 2005-2006 CDI's....but lots of M112 powered E320s and even some high miles bluetec's!

300k mile Bluetec!

Dealer repairs are expensive on any car. My wife's friend has owned both a kia rio, and now a dodge nitro, the kia fell apart completely by 90k miles and they trashed it, repairs included $550 to fix an interior door handle/latch on the driver door. The Nitro has 108k on it and has cost thousands in repairs over the past year....and it still has several problems going on.

My 2001 E320 has 157k on it and still runs/shifts perfectly smooth. Repairs it has needed have been minimal and it has never broken down. Even took out a good size doe with it a couple years ago at 45+mph, it drove 200 miles home with a bent radiator/smashed hood, no problem. New used hood, beat the front back into shape, new radiator and condenser, back in business. Interior durability and quality leaves a lot to be desired, but its still reliable and comfortable....and costs practically nothing to own.

MB does have its faults....cars that rusted badly way longer than they should have (all the way to 2003). And now issues like not being able to get a new key fob for a R129, which is something my dad has been dealing with on his SL for the past 8 months...simply ridiculous....and the original basis of this thread. Stuff like keys should ALWAYS be available, especially for cars that stay around forever like SL's!

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

You can get pod diaphragms and rebuild yours from here:
I don't work for them, I just used them to buy mine:

PAC owner George Murphy has over 39 years of experience in the maintenance and repair of Mercedes-Benz vehicles. He currently serves as a Technical Advisor for the Mercedes-Benz Club of America (MBCA) and is a frequent contributor of technical articles to The STAR, the magazine of the MBCA. To join, go to www.mbca.org or call 800-637-2360.

PAC offers engine oil analysis service, climate and cruise control parts, electronic modules and other unique items for the economical repair of expensive components.

All parts shown are normally in stock and usually ship within 48 hours via UPS, Fedex or Priority Mail. Many other Mercedes-Benz parts are also available and can be shipped within 2 business days.

(Please note that prices are subject to change without notice.)

PERFORMANCE ANALYSIS COMPANY
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865-482-9175

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