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  #1  
Old 01-02-2019, 08:40 AM
Bengoshi2000's Avatar
1991 300D 2.5 Turbo
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 229
January 02 - Dumb Question Day

Yesterday, without warning, my '91 300d starts shifting hard. I've yet to double check vacuum lines or the output of the vacuum pump. In the reading I've done overnight, seems that I have the original vac pump (crimped on cover). Here's the dumb question:

Should I forget trying to diagnose the pump and just replace it as a matter of course? The car has 125k miles. I've got to put a new radiator in it this weekend anyway and it seems like a good time to do it.
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2019, 03:39 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
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Location: SF Bay Area
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Yawn. It takes a far dumber question to top me.

If the brakes work, the vacuum pump works. If the door locks and ACC work, the vacuum pump works. If you still have a vacuum actuated wastegate and the turbo is boosting, you have vacuum. Maybe a vacuum line came off at the IP VCV or transmission modulator. Don’t worry about the bigger black line from the side of the VCV to the cabin. That’s a vent that doesn’t connect to anything. If your car has that blue circular thing behind the ABS pump, there are even more vacuum lines that affect shifting.

Sixto
98 E320s sedan and wagon
02 C320 wagon
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2019, 03:45 PM
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Shifting hard is a better scenario than shifting soft I believe. At least to deal with. If nothing is found by observation. I would want to have a vacuum testing tool though.
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:41 PM
vwnate1's Avatar
Diesel Dandy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sunny So. Cal. !
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Thumbs up Vacuum Question

If you don't know a thing that makes you ignorant, a very different thing than is stupid .

I think this is an excellent question and it should serve as a learning tool for many .
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1982 240D creampuff 370,000 miles
1978 300CD back from the dead&1980 300CD ~ SOLD
1984 300CD KEEPER ! 430,XXX miles
1984 Euro 300TD Fully optioned SWMBO's
1974 350SLC 4 speed stickshift SOLD & missed
Krazy Kommie Ural Motos (3)
BMW Moto R60/6 Barn Find, 8,000miles
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:02 PM
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busy
 
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You ain't priced out a vacuum pump yet have you? Find the leak, fix it and be done for the time being.
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:24 PM
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You may be lucky and find that one of your vac lines just came off a nipple.
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2019, 12:29 AM
Shadetree
 
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Location: Back in SC upstate
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I'd isolate some of the systems and see if I could narrow it down. I don't know how the vac to the transmission is controlled on a 91 but that might be a good starting point.

You should probably look into starting a saving account so you can replace that vac pump too. Fix what's broken or loose and save some money.
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:47 AM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
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A new Pierburg pump is $250-300.

If you don’t mind investing in a gasket, pull the pump and confirm the plastic bearing spacer is intact. If the balls are able to touch each other, keep the car off the road until you get another pump.

If it has a metal gasket, apply some RTV to both sides and reuse it. New Pierburg pumps come with a gasket. I don’t know about Chinese pumps.

Sixto
98 E320s sedan and wagon
02 C320 wagon
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:53 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
Yawn. It takes a far dumber question to top me.

If the brakes work, the vacuum pump works. If the door locks and ACC work, the vacuum pump works. If you still have a vacuum actuated wastegate and the turbo is boosting, you have vacuum. Maybe a vacuum line came off at the IP VCV or transmission modulator. Don’t worry about the bigger black line from the side of the VCV to the cabin. That’s a vent that doesn’t connect to anything. If your car has that blue circular thing behind the ABS pump, there are even more vacuum lines that affect shifting.

Sixto
98 E320s sedan and wagon
02 C320 wagon
Door locks are not handled by engine vacuum pump on the W124, its an electric vac/pressure pump under the back seat.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:56 AM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
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Doh! Rear headrest then

Sixto
98 E320s sedan and wagon
02 C320 wagon
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:31 AM
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Location: West of Ft. Worth. TX
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Rather than going straight to the pump, there are more likely suspects.

The flex fitting at the transmission is constantly exposed to a harsh environment.
Also, a recent oil change, etc.., may have resulted in an accidental disconnection.
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84 300SD 350K+ miles ( Blue Belle )
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2019, 09:14 AM
Bengoshi2000's Avatar
1991 300D 2.5 Turbo
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 229
Thanks for the replies, folks.

Like I said, I haven't had a chance to get out the mityvac and start doing the troubleshooting needed. I'm a bit paranoid about the vac pump knowing that if left unchecked, it can wreak havoc when it fails. Possibly panicked a bit as I haven't been under the hood recently to disturb any vac lines... so the sudden hard shifting was alarming.

As for the vac systems the brakes are fine and the vents respond properly to the ccu... no changes there.

At least my saturday morning is planned now...
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2019, 09:38 AM
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You really have two questions here. As has been discussed, there is a vacuum leak somewhere. It's not necessarily in the transmission circuit. If you look at the pump, you will see that the brakes and engine shutoff are fed with a large plastic hose that attaches with a flare nut. Next to that, there is a small vacuum line that fits into a nipple. The small line feeds everything else in the engine compartment. Just start there and test at each branch with your mityvac. You will find a leak. As a matter of best practice, if you have one leaking elbow, Y or connector, then you have twenty more that will fail soon. If you don't want to be doing this often, get a full set of connectors and go to town.

As for the pump, I replaced the one on my 602 at something over 300K miles as a preventative. If you're getting up there, keep your eyes open for a deal and do it for peace of mind. There is a Chinese copy of this pump, but you want to look for the real Pierburg pump.
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:51 AM
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Location: Tucson, AZ
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If it comes down to it, the pumps are rebuild-able, including replacing the bearings with improved, caged style bearings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWvLY82zcFg

Comparison of bearings on posts #14 and #15.

OM606 Vacuum Pump

I recommend using paint thinner/mineral spirits and hot soapy water for the cleaning. I'm not a fan of the brake cleaner/carb cleaner approach.

This job is a lot easier with the radiator pulled
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2019, 11:53 AM
vwnate1's Avatar
Diesel Dandy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sunny So. Cal. !
Posts: 3,840
Post Vacuum Pump Bearings

I imagine the main thing is to avoid Chinese or third world bearings here .

? Would sealed bearings help any ? (add a P [one side sealed] or PP [both sides sealed] at the end of the P/N if needed .
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-Nate
1982 240D creampuff 370,000 miles
1978 300CD back from the dead&1980 300CD ~ SOLD
1984 300CD KEEPER ! 430,XXX miles
1984 Euro 300TD Fully optioned SWMBO's
1974 350SLC 4 speed stickshift SOLD & missed
Krazy Kommie Ural Motos (3)
BMW Moto R60/6 Barn Find, 8,000miles
1959 VW #113 Deuxe Beetle, 36hp engine, stock
Junk, Rust, Arthritis, Crushed Spine,Broken Neck&Back
Memories &Peace Of Mind
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