New On The Floor
 

....Time to pay your dues young man ~ nothing should be below you if you expect to become a Journeyman Mechanic .

Well, we had a crank, no start today. It was a diag ticket, the "master tech" with 15 years of experience was chosen to do it.

I suggested it's most likely spark related because it's most common..
Without verifing anything he went out with a can of wd 40 and sprayed into the intake and cranked, nothing happened.


At that moment I knew for a fact lack of spark was the cause of the no start.


However, the master tech wasn't satisfied, so he removed the fuel line to the fuel pressure regulator and had a co worker crank, fuel gushed out...

He didn't even have a testlight or multimeter in hand, in the end he failed to properly diagnose or even narrow the culprit. There was no logical sense of direction, just guessing.

Even worsd is one of the managers suggest I do non waiting tickets only, that means no work AT ALL for me. I'm going to have to dispute this suggestion first thing tomorrow morning.

"Master Tech"
 

Wow .

I'm old so the first thing I do is " connect a spark plug and crank it to see if any / what color the spark is, you're going to bump into a lot of this, just watch & learn....

Knowing what not to do is as important as knowing what to do .

I would suggest keeping your mouth shut with suggestions as advice. No one will take it or listen to the new guy. Even if you are right. It’s going to come across as a bad way. Just watch and learn. Keep to yourself and work your way up the pole. No work with the tickets you’re getting is fine. You get paid hourly I’d assume. So what does it matter if you’re doing nothing for a couple hours sweeping the shop and taking out garbage? You get paid to do nothing. Not a bad thing. I cleaned bays at at Mercedes for $15 an hour when I started. That was even with prior experience at independents. I left Benz at $26 an hour flat rate. Patience and time will get you far in this field.

Work comes with time and you won’t get stuff to do overnight. They have no idea of your worth yet or if you were the investment to hire.

Heard that Jake.
On another note I thought about buying a scanner but, cheap ones seem to be a total waste of money.

I'll pass until I can buy a high-end one. Think I'm going to use my tax return to fix my E300, buy some tools/bigger box(cheap), and get a uscope master kit.

as said, just learn from this, you saw a symptom being diagnosed wrong, this just adds to experience. some experiences are different than others. In some you just watch, in some you get your hands involved.

e.g. I saw a youtube video where a professional mechanic used a powerscrew type tool to remove an extremely stuck brake rotor and literally had it fly off the hub and cut the air hose as it hit the floor.

I had used a similar tool about 15 years ago, It was made by a welder/machinist but had a hydraulic bottle jack in it. - The mechanic in the video forgot one most important fact when installing the tool,

the lug nuts (or some other similar pitch nuts and washers) are installed on the studs and kept 3 or 4 threads loose to prevent the rotor flying off.

before sinking money into these tools, first understand the logic flow of how the engine/transmission functions, This will make understanding the codes easier.

e.g. toyota fuel pump control circuit error is actually a MAF sensor code, a mazda off idle lean out error is usually attributed to a stuck purge valve, or ford focus gear ratio incorrect errors can be from a squirrely input/output speed sensor or even a bad alternator or a failed end cover causing an internal hydraulic leak.

other small tidbits like 02-05 mazdas will throw can-bus errors if you connect or remove a scan tool while the ignition is on. Similarly low voltage startup on later W210 can manifest itself as a transmission range switch error and cause the TCU do go silent. (same as chrysler).

I have seen a mechanic do a mistake once too, I didnt say a word until they asked, It was such;

When pulling up PID to determine input speed sensor performance, in Park it will show almost 99% of engine rpm and go to zero when you perform a garage shift to D or R - The mechanic though it was wrong because according to him the car was not moving and was calling it a bad ECM (toyota), what he failed to understand was that the input shaft in the automatic transmission is freewheeling in P or N from the twist of the torque converter, until something is applied in the transmission (like a gear ratio).

The actual fault was a bad stator bushing in the pump of the transmission causing torque converter clutch lockup code.

This could have been cross checked from another car too, but pomp got to that guy.

Wow, that's a revelation, ok I'll hold off then lol.

Oh yeah, I got yelled at for using a torque wrench on lug nuts...

It was an 05 Corolla with 76 foot lb spec. Good day today.

in another life I wrenched on cars for a living, anyway. Dont get upset on the yelling for torquing - Always torque the lugs and dont lube them ever.

Just for such industry the split beam torque wrench made by precision is best, you can leave it at whatever torque you want and adjusting the range is from a small thumbwheel on the side - makes for quick work.

Probably got fired, don't care honestly. The service writer always has a smart mouth so I answered equally.
Having worked multiple jobs, I can tell when people don't and never will like your presence.
Would rather work at a pizza shop for $9. Picking up my box tomorrow. Looks like I'm off to the military.

Wait ~ you're going to quit before you even know ? .

You're going to have one helluvva rough enlistment if you take that attitude in .

You're young and so easily excited by sloth and incompetence, you need to learn to be able to let the B.S. roll off your back like water off a duck or you'll get steamrollered .

? Guess how I know this ? :rolleyes: .

Too soon old, too late wise .

Be very, VERY careful which branch of service you enter.....

Hope that works out for you.

Seems like a great attitude. I'm sure the shop whose time you wasted won't miss you. Good luck with that enlistment, you should do great with the smart mouth.

Eh, there was no getting to know them, long story short.

No one gave me any sort of respect, and they always had a condescending attitude. There was no getting on their good side.

I sold a brake job on MY TICKET, was about to perform said brake job, SERVICE WRITER GAVE ME THE GREEN LIGHT, then one of the techs literally out loud said "No, I don't trust him to do brake jobs".

I disagreed but they weren't hearing it. What's the point of selling jobs if the senior techs eat everything I sell ON MY TICKET?

The service writer also wanted another tech to verify and look over every suspension and brake job I recommend.

I had no say so or clout over anything I did, period. They did not trust my judgement in the SLIGHTEST.
Hell, today the old hydro pneumatic lift got stuck in the up position and I was about to notify the manager but the tech said to just stand there and hold the up bottom.

It's clearly broken and not going to fix itself.

After 7 years in the workforce I never had issues like this before, I never got fired either. NEVER had issues like this in school either. These guys where different.

And no I'm not some runt who can't obey authority, you guys just don't understand my situation.

Ha! You don't seem to realize that the shop dynamic he is dealing with is common. As I stated before, we are not exactly dealing with MENSA candidates in this type of shop.

If this shop really cared, they would have explained to him why they are moving jobs to others and how he would still get paid for the selling portion of the job.

I'd imagine the shop he's dealing with probably goes through employees like water. Depending on the area, turnover can be monthly, weekly, or even daily. Maybe the shop's at fault, maybe the labor force, maybe both. Who knows.

What I do know: When you start a new job, you're at the bottom of the totem pole, pal. You're sweeping floors, watching other people, getting instruction, getting checked on. It's part of the routine. You want respect? You EARN IT. Just because you walked in the door doesn't mean a damn thing. You show you know your stuff, you demonstrate that you're committed, and you power through the initiation BS. THEN people in the office will give you respect and move you to less menial jobs.

Welcome to the working world. Nobody owes you a damn thing. You earn it.

Based on the history of the OP on this forum, I wouldn't trust him with a brake change either. The shop runner would probably be headed down to NAPA 3 or 4 times for pieces broken or shot across the shop and lost. No offense to the OP, but some people "have it" and some just don't.

Probably given the shop isn't explaining why certain things are happening.

As for the rest of your post. If I come across someone with drive but less experience, I will cultivate them as drive isn't something that can be taught. I want someone to have a bit of snap in their step though there is a fine line between arrogance and confidence.

There's always more to the story that isn't told. A hand that's got the drive and ability to learn the trade and apply it will get noticed. One who thinks they know everything when they walk in the door won't last long.

Attitude is everything. Based on the OP's attitude on this thread, he's lucky he lasted a week. If he worked for me he'd have been gone after Day 2. I don't have time, money, or toleration for arrogance and insubordination from my help. If they want to learn and they have a desire and drive to do it, I go out of my way to help them out. The attitude better be checked at the door though.

If you do end up in military service I just hope you don't get someone killed or severely hurt; possibly yourself! Basic training is going to be difficult with these attitudes, IF you don't wash out.

Someone mentioned it earlier, respect is earned, it's not an entitlement. And it's a two way street.

Instead of whining about the brake job you could have asked the tech if he could use a hand and then watched and listened to him in the process. You might have learned something, could have maybe showed them you actually have something valuable to contribute, and maybe even started making an ally on the shop floor. How else do you expect to learn all the stuff you don't even know you don't know?

Oh yeah, if you were a little smarter you would have showed up for lunch with a couple of your expertly made pizzas to help grease the skids and make friends!

Wow, one day on the job and you didn't have any clout over anything and they didn't trust your judgement?? They don't know you from Adam, and they are supposed to let you have free reign and trust your "judgement"?? Are you kidding?? They have to see your work, and SEE IF YOU CAN BE TRUSTED and have the knowledge to take on bigger and more complicated work assignments. What you want to do is walk in the door and start running the place..........let me clue you in.........THAT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!

Oops, didn't get fired just sent home for the day

I would make pizza for them, but it would have to be onsight. I would literally bring a pizza oven over and stretch out dough there. It would be the best pizza they've eaten in their life.

Probably true what you're saying, I'm a damn good pizza maker, but a mediocre mechanic. There was a 16yr old and 30ish old coworkers at my job who sucked at making pizza no matter how many they made.


Lets see if i can be exceptional at both.

Only if you treated him like this type of shop does. I'd expect you to have a much better shop dynamic and explain how things operate. If the employee does not respond to mentoring, then send them on their way.


From a prior post:

This only works in shops where the other techs are confidant in their own abilities and don't feel threatened . There is absolutely no reason for other techs at this facility to say anything good about any new guy as apparently this shop runs on commission. About the only way our guy graduates to good jobs is when other techs die.

Sure, our guy may be a bit over the top in drive vs actual skill but the shop should have explained how the shop works / responsibilities / level of work / goals before he hit the shop floor. I'm betting the shop gave him a blue sky story just to get him in the door.

OK. Perhaps it is time to have a frank conversation with management about the shop dynamic / expectations / demonstrate skills / how to move to better jobs.

I asked the manager, he gave me a vague answer. Something along the lines of "When you show the ability to prove and demonstrate yourself, then we'll move you up". Funny thing is even the service writer complained that she never got a raise, commission, or bonuses. She also had a problem with how the manager treated and perceived her.

I agree with you, the ONLY way I'm moving up is if their cornerstone techs die, an older but new experienced mechanic who works there noticed everything is fed to the big three techs. Honestly, I'll stay long enough that working in a shop is natural to me and hopefully they give me more considerable tasks. If I'm still only changing oil and doing flat repairs after 5 , or 6 months, we have a problem.

I disagree with the others, when I worked at the pizza shop, I tried to make new guys feel at home. Myself and others gave them respect on day one, we groomed them as best as we could, always giving helpful tips. I wanted to raise them up, not throw them to the wayside and complain they know nothing.


Because of this, the work environment was positive and encouraging, pretty much all of the coworkers became good friends (shared contacts, hung out after work). The new guys felt included, not ostracized, the managers said out of their mouths they've never seen a restaurant with such a high retention rate, ever. It still hurts me to this day that I left them for this TRASH.
Long story short, a good work environment encourages and creates growth.

Then again I need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, THIS IS A TREAD QUARTERS, bottom of the totem pole, the McDonald's of auto repair. Of course there is a pos work environment and attitude, NOT saying it's right or justified but that's how it is. This attitude won't change the longer I work there, why? Because there's ZERO pride when working at a tread quarters. Pride and perception plays a role here imo.

Coming from 5 different restaurants, 7 years of experience in total, I can see instantly wether a job is going to be good or bad based on the atmosphere, culture, and how you're initially treated.

Then again it seems you're mocking my pizza making ability with a bit of coarse satire. I can show you better than I can tell you.

Looks like this shops strategy is to feed potential employees. " You can make up to $ XX " but once they are there, but the advances never come.

I call this the " Convenience store effect " This is where the counter job is only worth so much and the employee can't offer more value to the company once they have learned the basics. A company can do this because they don't care or want an employee to stay long term it can even be that the position has a naturally high turn over so why pay more?

This is probably the guy you want to align yourself with, he is bound to have contacts at other shops and you might be able to follow him if he leaves. As a somewhat side note, be very careful to avoid getting involved with a shop that is a front for drugs , auto theft or other bad things.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to be on their good side. We'll see how this works, your insight is something else, it makes perfect sense.

Another update, well I was speaking to one of the techs, he said a good shop will show you the ropes on how to do more advanced jobs on a slow day.

He said don't expect that here.
Also he explained how a tech in our very own shop who has been working for tread quarters for over 2 years was JUST ALLOWED to do his FIRST EVER BRAKE JOB last week.

I knew this place was dead end from the jump, how unfortunate. They don't perform gravy work like timing belts, intake manifold replacement, etc.

Time to look elsewhere ASAP! I'm going to apply to reputable independent shops while still employed at tread quarters.

Hopefully that will give me the tiniest bit of leverage to get in.

Heck, I could actually put my diagnostic skills to work.

How long have you worked there now?

2 weeks or something like that, and no I don't expect to come out the womb tracing the potential causes of lean running engine. I know it takes time, but this shops line of work is very limited and LIMITING.

Going to a job meeting, am expecting a bunch of corporate hoopla...

How old are you Giants?

When I got my first internship type job as an airline pilot I was 23. I had $150k in student debt and 6 years of University and flight training under my belt. Due to the economy taking a downturn I was “lucky” to keep that internship for 7 years making barely enough to eat and pay the interest. Some flight attendants would talk down to me and sometimes gate agents would refer to me as “young man” despite bringing a lot more to the table than them when hired. Most captains were good mentors but some were miserable A holes with whom I had to share a closet sized space with for days at a time. I got discouraged too sometimes. My point with this is that the only thing that will carry you through your entry level years are the things YOU can control. That is pride in YOURSELF and what you do. Do the absolute best you can with whatever trivial job they give you. Make your bed in the morning and make sure to keep yourself organized clean and cut. Dress for the job you want and not the one you have. Finally be positive humble and keep networking. Someone will notice eventually. One day you’ll be surprised when people start giving you more responsibilities because they see your intrinsic values. That may or may not happen where you are but if you are a quality employee a quality outfit will want to hire you.

Best of luck

Basic Attitude
 

Well said R.Diesel.

I too began young and was often frustrated by the poor attitude of those I worked with , many of whom were my Elders and so I assumed supposed to help out instead of being mean spirited (envious) and deliberately made things difficult instead of teaching the eager newbie and letting me do the works and learning whilst they sat on their butts....

It's obvious F.O.G. has yet to come to grips with these basic facts of life, not to worry, I fought well into my 30's and realized slowly that what is written above is right and now I'm old and on the down slope I see how many did see the good I did and my attempted good attitude when I was young, they come to me now for help and avice, others are scared and envious of your youth and eagerness and will always try to stop you instead of making life easier for everyone .

Don't sweat it, take things easier, easy to say I know but we're on your side .

Got fired for real this time, yes it's going to suck but whatever. I just started talking about how they're throwing parts at a car that was missfiring and well the rest is history.

I'm 23, I'll try to take that into consideration next time.

This is an interesting thread.

You were given advice by myself and everyone to keep your mouth shut. You have no opinion nor the level of experience to say those things. You’re a nobody in that shop, just a new guy who hasn’t earned his keep or respect of anybody. Also, what does it matter what they do? It isn’t your vehicle and doesn’t affect your job how they run the shop.

Ouch :eek:

Sorry that may have been harsh. I didn’t mean to be, just wanted to give him some advice for the future and kind of what I was told starting out. FOG, I apologize my friend!

Sometimes us young guys take a few firings and harsh words to learn. I had to learn my place when I started working at a shop.

Definitely a different atmosphere than a lot of other jobs us young adults are able to get. I now work in an office alone, it's much nicer.

When it comes down to it, our guy was going to learn near nothing / not make much progress in that toxic environment. About the only benefit might have been a a few lines on a resume though this could be seen as a detriment in the eyes of some independent shops ( RE: learned bad habits from a chain store. )

I'd still be pushing our guy towards industrial machinery repair at a factory if there is any manufacturing in his area ( not fixing copy machines / printers ) or building trades such as electrical / HVAC / mechanical contracting. Remember, the end goal is to be in a less physical environment as you are nearing retirement so keep an eye towards management level of whatever trade you select.

Industrial repair is good, fleet maintenance is also a good field. The draw back to fleet maintenance and industrial is you tend to operate within a narrow field of expertise. Not necessarily a bad thing but it can be limiting.

I started out as a pin setter mechanic for a bowling alley and by various missteps along the way ended up managing support for a fleet service for 300+ vehicles serving three states.

You didn't make a perfect pizza the first few times you made one and I imagine you went through a few employers before you found one which fit you.

Learn something every day and in time, people will start asking YOU for solutions.

No it's ok Jake, I wouldn't have lasted long therr anyways. I took 97SL320's advice and wore ear muffs when using the an impact or other noisy equipment (the cheetah!) and the manager told me I'M NOT allowed to wear them because they obstruct my hearing. I don't wear them constantly.

Little does she know, ear plugs are more effective than ear muffs. This ticked me off, without any hostility in my voice or posture I asked why? She said it's company policy, then she got irritated I even asked her a question in the first place.

I'm not a smoker, everyone there smoked in the shop including the manager, imagine the new guy asking them to smoke outside because I smoke is uncomfortable for me.

When I asked questions about a ticket the manger would often tell me to go away or leave her the hell alone for the time being because she was busy.

When oil filter type, specs, and capacity where missing and if I where to ask her to provide the specs she'd get pretty mad.

Stupid stuff like that is what irritated me.

Now what lead to the demise? I asked to have an actual face to face discussion, I told her if she can't talk to me without swearing at me with every other word then I don't want to hear what she has to say. Then she let me go.

A little add on was the blatant favoritism and the massive cover up.

Their "master tech" if irritated will get angry, start swearing at other co-workers and then leave for an 1 hour and a half to get DRUNK and comeback to work.

He's the shop drunkard, didn't know they existed.
Yes I had a mess up, too, I forgot to tighten the valve stem body after replacing a tmps kit, customer had a slow leak and it had to get towed back, ouch on me.

However, we had a WHEEL OFF on a truck, we know who worked on that truck, YET there's no somehow no record of that truck being here... She hated me, was no changing that.

It was and is a cesspool.

I would like to do fleet maintenance, but for some reason they want them ASE's. Looks like I have to put in the grind for them.
Yes, the last place I worked at the employers and employees cherished me, and I cherished them. I was titled "Thin crust master or Thin crust God" because I was able to make a thin crust pizza with flat and even dough all the way around, and the pizzas came out looking wonderful, eventually coworkers noticed and only came to ME for thin crust pizza.

Hopefully I get to the point when people as me for solutions. I can see myself in that position. I appreciate your response!

I hate to vear off again but I need to write this before I forget it.

A car came in for an oil change, my ticket, after inspecting the car everything looked GOOD except for two blown tie rods.

As I move around to the back of the vehicle I begin wiggling parking brake hardware for play, I just so happen to pull back on the rear caliper and it moved. I was like "naw it's just floating calipers, WAIT did it just move backwards on it's vertical axis?!"

Pulled it further back and somehow the top caliper bolt was sheared in two! Some num nut overnighted it with an impact, head of bolt was a little rounded too.

Immediately I informed the manager. She and the customer arrived at the car to look at it. I explained to her and the customer that this particular caliper isn't bad but in it's current state does not have the stopping power it originally had. I advised that all she needed was a new caliper bolt and for the old one to be extracted.

That particular wheel free spinned with tires on it, no drag at all.

But here's what ticked me off.

I was sitting in the desk waiting for orders essentially, I heard her bring up the caliper. She said the caliper was DRAGGING! HOW IS IT DRAGGING, I screamed in my head, then at that moment I realized we have one or two possibilities here.

She was wholly ignorant of the situation and was simply regurgitating the same corporate dribble about bad dragging calipers.

Or she was LYING!

Welcome to the real world kid .

It sucks and until you learn how to deal with it,. you're going to be very unhappy .

BT, DT, paid my dues 50 years ago and am still doing honest mechanical repairs .

Don't give up .

Noble profession. Work at a reputable shop with other good employees. If you feel like running a business, open your own shop after you have experience.

I'll address the rest of your posts but I had to address this one now.

The manager knows absolutely nothing about an automotive / industrial environment, hearing protection is critical and any company policy against it is illegal. Once hearing is damaged, _ IT WON'T RECOVER, EVER_ .

Not only is noise damaging to hearing, it is immensely fatiguing as it triggers the " Fight or Flight " response leaving a person constantly on edge whether they realize it or not. Even worse is when someone has a radio blasting in the corner and then has to go to the bar to drink themselves silly to " recover " .

Ear muffs shave off sound peaks not totally block sound so it is possible to have a normal conversation with someone as long as the muff wearer knows not to speak louder so they can hear themselves at normal levels.

I've used high rated ( 26 NRR ) muffs since 97 and they work great when grinding, sawing, running the mower / tractor. Muffs are also helpful in diagnosing mechanical noises as they shave off the roar leaving more mechanical sounds.

One small point in your post, I've found good muffs muffs to be better than plugs because they cover the side of your head and can be put on / off rapidly.

https://www.howardleight.com/

https://www.howardleight.com/hearing-protection/articles