Fram v MANN oil filters
 

Hello folks,

My regular supplier of many years has dropped the Hengst brand in favour of Fram/Crossland or MANN.

On my last order I used MANN which looked equal to Hengst at least visually, on this type of filter you can see most of the element exposed.

Just about to place an order and thought the Fram looked good with metal cage around bottom element - there's no real price difference, just wondered if things had moved on with Fram quality wise?

Fram

https://media.carparts4less.co.uk/im.../501220086.jpg

MANN

https://media.carparts4less.co.uk/im.../501220089.jpg

Crossland


https://media.carparts4less.co.uk/im.../501220088.jpg

The Fram cartridge filters for Merc Diesels were always great filters. The criticism, right or wrong, is always directed at their spin ons.

You cannot hide that there is almost no filtering material in a cartridge type filter. So Fram cleans up their act with them.

With the actual low cost of the filtering medium. I often wondered if every last penny of profit was that important to them on their spin on filters. I estimated there was only 10 to 20 percent of the filtering material in comparison to decent German filters with Fram.

I think others also play the same game. They rightly assume few will ever cut them open and examine them.

Our members have done extensive research on the 617.952 Oil filters but not on the others.

In the past the filter makers websites say what the full flow part of the filter was rated at (how well it filters). However, there is two different standards of ratings.

https://www.lenntech.com/library/fine/absolute/absolute-nominal-filters.htm

Fram doesn't make these, they re box them .

Decent quality it seems .

Allied Signal bought the Fram brand name decades ago and the spin ons and pleated air filter elements are trash .

OEM at the Mercedes Dealer is about $15. I've gone that route a couple of time when I forgot to order a couple of Manns to have on hand. Don't know if MB genuine is markedly better.

If you cut the top of the filter open you will see that the filters are filled with cotton waste, bugs, twigs, saw dust and other floor sweepings from the cotton ginning mills. (atleast they used to be like this)

Only the mercedes benz filters actually have clean media in them, the turkish sourced fram filters with these construction also had clean cotton string media - Some Iranian, Pakistani and Indian oil filters also had the same clean cotton string media in these mercedes oil filters but none were or are sold in USA.

I cut open a bunch of the other filters. The sticks and bugs and rocks and cotton field mowings didn't bother me at all - if it works and is cheap I'm game. What did bother me was that the filters were so poorly constructed that said debris was escaping the filter cartridge. Unacceptable.

I'm aware that millions of engines have gone probably billions of miles on the filters full of cotton field mowings without issue. Best practices and personal feelings aside, real world experience has shown this to be a non-issue.

I still ain't doing it.

I run Baldwin P102 or Hastings LF380 oil filters. They may not be better constructed, but there are no field mowings to leak out.

Are Mahle, Wix or Baldwin available? Check the price on MBZ also.

Good luck!!!

No need to chop open as most of the filter paper is exposed, that said not sure what's in the can side probably more of the same. Occasionally see Mahle but not the last two Wix or Baldwin, MB are not pricey around twice the cost of MANN.

This is another popular web site which lists the MANN filter almost double the current cost (inc shipping), it also also has a Purfulx filter which looks very much like the Fram.

https://www.mister-auto.co.uk/oil-filter/mercedes-benz/e-class/e-class-estate-s124-e-300-t-d-136hp-1993-1996/

Going to stick with MANN, bank holiday w/end which normally means an extra 10% discount http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ons/icon14.gif

This is a slightly off topic question, but does anyone think the filter design may affect oil pressure?

If you take the Fram its heavily covered in mesh with small holes, compare this to say MANN being fully open perhaps allowing better flow/less pressure. There must be some resistance to oil flow as when blocked have a by-pass valve.

The oil pressure switch on 606's is located just under the filter housing.

https://cdn4.pelicanparts.com/techar...mall/pic03.jpg

Years ago on here or another MB board, a fram got opened up and found cotton plant remnants in the bypass section of these. Like bits of leaves and twigs, as I recall.

Someone should cut one open and see what it's like these days.

This is exactly why I chopped several brands open, and unfortunately you'd be wrong. It looked like someone mowed a cotton field, plants and all, and emptied the bag into a loose coffee filter type bag and then crammed it into the bypass section. Literally dirty cotton, sticks, stones, bugs, sand, etc.

Again, all that junk in the filter doesn't bother me - when it stays in the filter. It wasn't.

Your recall is poor. They opened a bunch of different filters. The usual German filters, like Hengst, Knecht and Mann, were filled with floor sweepings from cotton mills. Their fill included sticks, bugs, dust, all sorts of crp.

Fram, specifically the ones made in Turkey, used nice clean material. I've preferred Fram for my Mercedes diesels ever since. It has to be fifteen or twenty years and half a million miles or more. The above comment about restriction is complete nonsense. The cumulative cross section of all those holes FAR exceeds the cross section of the filter outlet (look at the top and bottom of any filter). Everything else is just sniping. Recently I've switched to Wix because of availability, but I won't use the German brands.

The original thread was off-board and long-gone, but here is one of several old threads that covered this:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/104768-oil-filters-one-buy-7.html

Just look at the photos, and you'll be convinced.

Flip, that's horrendous, given the relative low cost of material what's the point.

Hopefully mine never gets to use the bypass media as changed twice a year, 5k miles max.

I would be interested to see if the mesh type have any impact on performance, pretty familiar with oil pressure readings at various temps - will give it a try, might even chop the old MANN unit up to see if bypass media has been used.

Theoretically the bypass media should be clean as around 3k of mileage so far.

There's an unfortunate confusion built into the nomenclature. Your primary filter will be bypassed by a pressure actuated valve if it becomes clogged, allowing unfiltered oil to circulate.

But this is not to be confused with the bypass section of your filter, which is a separate system. The bypass section is constantly in use, providing "slow deep" filtration of a small portion of the oil flow, which is then returned to the pan. The top 2/3 of your oil filter is the bypass section. The idea is that the primary filter can pass large volumes of oil to keep the system pressurized, but can't be very efficient, otherwise it would clog. But the bypass section doesn't have to feed the demands of the engine, so it can have very efficient media and will scrub the oil more slowly and thoroughly. In time, all the oil circulates through the bypass section.

Thanks, that helps clear up the confusion - checked a few videos on the spin on type which seem pretty straightforward as the bypass does just that, bypass the filter element to keep the bearings from seizing.

In essence the lower part of folded fabric is for higher viscosity (cold) oil to pass through similar to bypass mentioned in below link, as the oil thins it can then enter the spun cotton portion?

The difference being no physical valve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecpkvsnKKNg

No. If the oil is too viscous to pass through the pleated filter, a bypass valve in the filter housing (not the filter element) routes oil directly to the oil galleries. Otherwise, all oil enroute to the galleries passes through the pleated element. Oil passing through the bypass portion of the filter is returned to the oil pan, rather than being routed directly to the oil galleries.

There is a physical bypass valve. It's located in the filter housing, rather than being incorporated into the filter itself, as is the case with many spin-on filters.

As infrequently as filters are changed, once or twice per year, I stick with OE from the dealer. Too much shady cost-cutting with the non Genuine filters. With all the globalization, mergers, subcontracting, etc. one brand/model filter that was good last year might be crap this year. Same looks same packaging but comes from a different factory. I would not rely on that media comparison thread from 2006 to be accurate in 2019. You can't go wrong with OE, and given the importance of the oil filter's role, I don't mind paying the five dollar premium or whatever to buy a Genuine part.

The floor sweepings media works good - (benz have millions of miles on them to prove that). And to be honest its a very "green" filter (our cars are very eco freindly :D)

As long as I owned my diesel W124, it got MANN filters or hastings (if found cheaper on ebay - like bent boxes etc) - they worked super. I did encounter one filter which literally was shedding the floor sweep media so I binned it.

That's nice. Your '98 E300 filter doesn't have the separate bypass section.

Thanks. My comment was not vehicle specific.

Here's a good video of some generic filters cut open
 

Are you sure this is how it works for the 605/6 type filters, seems a little complicated ? - what's to stop oil passing through both the pleated element and hidden cotton balls, the tube runs right through the middle on these filters with no obvious mechanism to divert.

Does the oil not just pass up through the middle exiting folded element part when cold, moving up to the use entire filter when hot - if filter gets blocked then valve bypasses the filter draining back down to pan.

The cartridge filters differ with oil pump to the inside out as opposed to outside in fir spin-on.

- just watched that last video, no way I am buying a Fram filter !!:eek:

I always liked the look of the Ferrari v12s with two Fram filters up top in front....so I like to buy Frams and channel Ferrari.

Besides I like Orange.

My comments were applicable to engines which utilize a two-stage oil filter, like the ones that you posted pictures of in post #1.

Perhaps you need to decide if you are inquiring about specific oil filters or specific engines.

Really?