Diesels may be banned from the road soon?? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Diseasel300 · #31 05-14-2019, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shern

At the very least, centralizing emissions to a power plant with modern technology is almost certainly better than spreading it across thousands of ICEs. I think "pollution" can be a very squirrelly term. If we're talking about landfills, perhaps. If we're talking about emissions, I cannot see how that statement can be even remotely true. (though I am happy to read any and all proprietary sources/studies on the matter!)

Centralizing combustion/production of energy to a power station is a very sound way of controlling emissions. It's MUCH easier to treat the emissions from a power plant (even a coal plant) to lower pollution than it is an ICE in a car. The problem is infrastructure and grid capacity. We're basically at the limit right now with essentially no electric vehicles sucking up massive amounts of power. An electric vehicle sucks down nearly as much power as an electric furnace, the grid simply can't support that in its current state.

If you want to add politics to the discussion, check out the discussions going on about creating NEW power plants just to replace the old ones that are being phased out or going offline currently and in the very near future. At the very least, energy costs will soar to support the increasing demand. There goes your cost savings.

TINSTAAFL. Everything comes at a cost. In the case of our current generation of electric cars, it's pollution involved in making/recycling/disposing of the batteries and the burden to our already stressed electric grid.

BodhiBenz1987 · #32 05-14-2019, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

the torque from it will be quite nice - Todays trend is all about low rpm torque.

I'll be curious how it does in real-world mpg too compared to EPA estimates. My diesel Chevy Cruze is rated at 52 mpg highway but it gets 65 mpg highway. Urban is a little more accurate (though the worst tank I have had is 44 mixed, and the mixed rating is 37). The gas version on the other hand seems to be well in line with the ratings. So the real-world advantage of the CX5 diesel may be more notable than the numbers say now. The 6 is also supposedly coming with it and might be neat. The biggest turnoff for me is they are only available in high trim so it will always be out of budget. Though the Cruze got axed, the diesel is still available in the Equinox and Terrain which seem to outperform mpg estimates too. I actually saw one on the highway the other day. Who knows about the future. I am enjoying what I have for now.

Zulfiqar · #33 05-14-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987

I'll be curious how it does in real-world mpg too compared to EPA estimates. My diesel Chevy Cruze is rated at 52 mpg highway but it gets 65 mpg highway. Urban is a little more accurate (though the worst tank I have had is 44 mixed, and the mixed rating is 37). The gas version on the other hand seems to be well in line with the ratings. So the real-world advantage of the CX5 diesel may be more notable than the numbers say now. The 6 is also supposedly coming with it and might be neat. The biggest turnoff for me is they are only available in high trim so it will always be out of budget. Though the Cruze got axed, the diesel is still available in the Equinox and Terrain which seem to outperform mpg estimates too. I actually saw one on the highway the other day. Who knows about the future. I am enjoying what I have for now.

Almost all diesels have outperformed the window sticker numbers.

Garagefull · #34 05-14-2019, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shern

I too am reluctant to wade into this but am also very skeptical of this claim.

At the very least, centralizing emissions to a power plant with modern technology is almost certainly better than spreading it across thousands of ICEs. I think "pollution" can be a very squirrelly term. If we're talking about landfills, perhaps. If we're talking about emissions, I cannot see how that statement can be even remotely true. (though I am happy to read any and all proprietary sources/studies on the matter!)

Centralized is what I was referring to when I spoke of "who" will be allowed to pollute in the supply chain of providing electricity.However,when battery production is figured into the equation,the mining and recycling..it shoots electric cars in the foot.Same with biomass,the weren't including the nitrogen (hydrocarbon) in the fertilizer,fuel to plant,harvest, gathering, processing and trucking and the fact that low sulfer base stock kills refineries..it's a no go niche market.

Garagefull · #35 05-14-2019, 05:45 PM

Plus,many other value based products are obtained from refining.Biomass would cause markets to have to obtain these products in another manner.Look up what is produced from a 44 gallon barrel of oil.. far more than just 47 gallons of refined gasoline.. paraffin for cosmetics,tar, asphalt and many others.

Zulfiqar · #36 05-14-2019, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garagefull

Plus,many other value based products are obtained from refining.Biomass would cause markets to have to obtain these products in another manner.Look up what is produced from a 44 gallon barrel of oil.. far more than just 47 gallons of refined gasoline.. paraffin for cosmetics,tar, asphalt and many others.

The most important - plastics

sloride · #37 05-15-2019, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

The most important - plastics

Been out of that industry for more than a decade, but natural gas was the preferred feed stock then, not oil.

barry12345 · #38 05-15-2019, 02:16 PM

The synthetic pennzoil I am using in the wives car is natural gas based it claims. Anyone know of any advantages or disadvantages? Molecular size is always of interest to me with fluids. Or do others just not specify their feedstock?

tjts1 · #39 05-15-2019, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garagefull

However,when battery production is figured into the equation,the mining and recycling..it shoots electric cars in the foot.

No it doesn't. You're full of ****.

Garagefull · #40 05-15-2019, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

No it doesn't. You're full of ****.

. Lithium..please look at posted article..and you are rude.leave, please

tjts1 · #41 05-15-2019, 04:48 PM

Quote:

A full-size long-range (265 miles per charge) BEV, with its larger battery, adds about six tons of emissions, which increases manufacturing emissions by 68 percent over the gasoline version. But this electric vehicle results in 53 percent lower overall emissions compared with a similar gasoline vehicle (see Figure ES-2). In other words, the extra emissions associated with electric vehicle production are rapidly negated by reduced emissions from driving. Comparing an average midsize midrange BEV with an average midsize gasoline-powered car, it takes just 4,900 miles of driving to “pay back”—i.e., offset—the extra global warming emissions from producing the BEV. Similarly, it takes 19,000 miles with the full-size long-range BEV compared with a similar gasoline car. Based on typical usages of these vehicles, this amounts to about six months’ driving for the midsize midrange BEV and 16 months for the full-size long-range BEV.

https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf

Read it and weep, son.

Garagefull · #42 05-15-2019, 05:00 PM

I'm not your son.I normally don't weep.You are rude.Easy to be a warrior behind a keyboard.

Garagefull · #43 05-15-2019, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf

Read it and weep, son.

Well there Skippy,guess you didn't read the entire post,or the article you posted.

vstech · #44 05-16-2019, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

No it doesn't. You're full of ****.

Asterisks? Full of asterisks? Or stars? Full of stars... like the obelisk from space odyssey

koooop · #45 05-16-2019, 04:21 PM

Lots of facts assumed in there, "we assume that the average midsize vehicles are driven 135,000 miles over their lifetimes". This would mean new Toyota Corolla's are being retired at 135,000? That is a ridiculous assumption as far as I'm concerned, they don't even need brakes until then.

I particularly like "especially when charged by a clean electricity grid".

Do we have a clean electricity grid?

Eitherway, those EV have got to be cleaner than my 240D, unless of course the 240D makes something like 1,000,000 miles, that would sure skew the results since it extends the average of the manufacturing emissions out so much further than 135,000.

I seem to recall that the F150 was the least polluting in Dust to Dust studies some years back since the damn things would never die.

I believe the EV will nearly wipe out the ICE both gasoline and diesel in cars in the long run. The diesel will be nothing more than an ancient oddity in personal transportation.