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  #1  
Old 07-08-2019, 07:49 PM
alghamedGT's Avatar
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Talking ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem

Hi folks
my car is a 1991 W201 2.5D with OM602 NA

I have a noisy lifters i done all kind of products but without any success
so i decided recently to changed all lifters with brand new one but i came with a problem
to remove the camshaft i need to remove the ASD pump because my car came with one. i removed also the radiator to get some access to the pump i loosen all bolts that holds the pump still attached to the the bracket and after a lot of searching i found that the back of the pump is glued with gasket sealer i try to hammer it pry it but with no success so i loosed the 2 10 mm bolts that holds the bracket but the the pump just wiggles
any ideas ?
i tested the lifter by pressing with a plastic tooth brush .all lifters are hard but the noise is for sure a lifter noise and the car is 530 000 Km so i think it is a normal wear . but how i can remove that stupid asd pump help me

" i know my engine bay is very dirty"
Attached Thumbnails
ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-formatfactoryphoto_20190708_184044.jpg   ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-formatfactoryphoto_20190708_184032.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:31 PM
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I am looking at the pictures and I am thinking that what is on the shaft and goes through the bearing is actually what is holding the Pump in.

If some member has a free online sight you can look at so you can see the Factory Service Manual I think you might fid you need some sort of puller to pull it straight off.

These are generic methods that I have used over the years on other things:
If it was only the flange and adhesive holding it on I would say heat it with a propane torch or a hand held butane torch to soften the adhesive. It should not take much heat to do that.

The other method is a little more tricky on parts with aluminum castings and thin flanges which is to get a knife that you can sacrifice and get the blade between the parts and tap it in a bit then go to the opposite side and do the same and all around it if you can get to that. However, it is going to be very subjective as to how much is too much.
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  #3  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:35 PM
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I found some images in a old Thread

Engine oil leak behind SLS pump - W124 wagon

so the back plat has third hidden 10mm bolt that cannot be removed without removing the asd pump
i already removed the asd pump shaft but still wont move
so after i saw this images i think i have no other choice
unstick the stuck pump or give up and live with the thickin noise forever
Attached Thumbnails
ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-148637d1532749740-engine-oil-leak-behind-sls-pump-w124-wagon-sls1.jpg   ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-148641d1532749852-engine-oil-leak-behind-sls-pump-w124-wagon-sls1a.png   ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-148638d1532749804-engine-oil-leak-behind-sls-pump-w124-wagon-sls2.png   ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-148639d1532749787-engine-oil-leak-behind-sls-pump-w124-wagon-sls4.png   ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-148689d1533250195-engine-oil-leak-behind-sls-pump-w124-wagon-img_20180731_203541.jpg  

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Old 07-09-2019, 01:56 AM
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You want to find procedure 05-437 in the factory service manual. I think Mercedes offers free access to the service manual via StarTek?

It looks like you leave the top and bottom bolts in place (that hold the cover to the front of the pump) but remove the other four bolts. The bolts to leave in place have continuous threads in the holes. Then the entire pump pulls off the plate, so that hidden bolt is accessible, but I don't think the plate is the issue. Once you get the pump off, there is a drive between the camshaft and the pump, and an o-ring seal. A bolt holds the drive to the front of the camshaft and probably also holds the camshaft gear in place at the same time.
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'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:59 AM
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Look here for service manual, under workshop resources.

https://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/
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M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:34 AM
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another silly question
my car has a lifter noise
but when a rotate the engine and press using a plastic tool all lifters are nice and hard !
did this mean that the lifters are fine ?
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alghamedGT View Post
another silly question
my car has a lifter noise
but when a rotate the engine and press using a plastic tool all lifters are nice and hard !
did this mean that the lifters are fine ?
Don't mistake injector "knock" or "chatter" for lifter clacking. They can sound similar. The 602 and 603's always seem to have a bit of injector "chatter" going on that appears to be normal.
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'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'91 350SD - "The Diseasel Jr." 168K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 189K (Totaled 1/31/19)
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:18 AM
WTB: 94/95 E320 Wagon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alghamedGT View Post
my car has a lifter noise
but when a rotate the engine and press using a plastic tool all lifters are nice and hard !
did this mean that the lifters are fine?

I'm on the fence on this. I suspect that with such high mileage, your lifters are probably not operating at full pressure, and so lifter rattle is possible, especially at idle.


As pointed out, injectors can also make noise, as can bad delivery valves. Probably easier to check and address those first.
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M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2019, 11:03 AM
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i already have injector knock especially in 1000-1300 rpm
how to check that delivery valves ?
i have no diesel leaks on the injection pump
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  #10  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:14 PM
WTB: 94/95 E320 Wagon
 
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Fix the injectors. If you still have a knock, at idle, then loosen injector hard line one at a time, see which one makes the most go away. Rebuild that delivery valve with new copper washer and o-ring. Inspect it carefully while you have it apart, if the valve seat is rough or if there is any scoring on either face, replace the valve.
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  #11  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxbumpo View Post
replace the valve.
Good luck with that. The DV's are NLA. From the dealer, from aftermarket suppliers, and from the Classic center. I've spent the last 3 months searching, I've finally gathered enough NOS parts to do my 3.4L and it was *EXHAUSTING* to hunt down the parts. I tried some generic Chinese DV's and failed miserably.
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'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'91 350SD - "The Diseasel Jr." 168K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 189K (Totaled 1/31/19)
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
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  #12  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:50 PM
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Update:
i found today that my timing is off by 10 so maybe my chain needs to be replaced but i still not able to remove that damn stupid pump and if i used too much force im gonna brake that poor aluminum housing maybe i'd give up to repair other important things first

i also recorded all noises in my old tired engine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTqc-xHguMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y2WLO9ovYE
Attached Thumbnails
ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-formatfactoryphoto_20190709_182324.jpg   ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-photo_20190709_1820321.jpg  
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  #13  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:07 PM
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Recheck how you determined how your timing is 10˚ off. Your picture shows 10˚ advanced. Your videos show both lifter noise and injector noise. Engine seems to run fine, so the timing probably isn't out far enough to worry about.

Important things first....fix the injectors, switch to a high detergent synthetic oil and see if you get improvement in the lifter department after 1000 miles or so. If so, great, if not, it gave you time to cool off and try again with the ASD pump when you're not pissed off at it.
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'11 Honda Accord EX - "The Daily" 64K
'83 500SL Euro - "The Money Pit" 116K
'91 350SD - "The Diseasel Jr." 168K
'86 300SDL - "The Diseasel" 189K (Totaled 1/31/19)
The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
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  #14  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:15 PM
WTB: 94/95 E320 Wagon
 
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Using that method of timing check, lay a ruler along all the cam bearings marks, all the caps have them, and then rotate the engine only clockwise until the mark on the camshaft lines up.
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2019, 07:08 PM
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Update

Update:
i did a diesel purge but because i never found that liqui moly diesel purge i used a similar product wynn's gold formula 500ml and i mixed it with 50ml of engine oil
during the purge all injector noises are gone slightly but after 1h of driving all noises came back

and for the lifters a friend told me to try an oil additive that worked for him
so maybe it worth trying
i poured it during the purge

https://youtu.be/SQtj6vfRheI
Attached Thumbnails
ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-formatfactoryphoto_20190714_200330.jpg   ASD pump and hydrolique lifters removal problem-formatfactoryphoto_20190714_200342.jpg  
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