I'm adding a stock 617a turbo to a 617 N/A. I can add a tee to the oil pressure sensor for the turbo oil supply, but where can I but the return? Must I tap the oilpan?


Please do not question my sanity and/or tell me to just pick up one of those cheap and widely available used but entirely good 617a engines that litter the ground. This is in a 1986 G-wagen 300GD, and IF I could find a worthwhile turbo engine nearby it would still require oilpan/engine mounts modifications and other unknown changes, it is not a straight swap. I live at 8000ft and just want to turbonormalize the engine, not add huge amounts of boost. It has a M-pump (lived it's previous life in Norway), and I don't plan on increasing fueling any significant amount. I know how to monitor EGT and engine temps.

well why not. The 617T engine returns its turbo oil to the pan via that hard to handle setup under the turbo, two tubes and one fits inside the other, rubber grommets, ect. It seems to me an easier way would be what you suggest, tap the pan and run a line, maybe a hose would be easier. But remember that turbo is capable of quickly melting the pistons of your set up! If you are going to develope more power, you are going to create more heat. Remember you heard it here first.

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Junqueyardjim
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1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

In addition to additional cooling capacity you might want to consider the installation of an intercooler to cool the air charge going into the engine. The cooler the air - the more power created.

Thanks, junqueyardjim, but it's not actually the first time... There are several posts about successful turbo adds (that don't include anatomic details), and there are NONE that I have found about actual grenading engines, just these well-intentioned dire warnings.

Without adding more fuel to more air, a turbo doesn't make more heat. Simple chemistry. At 8000 ft I have 75% of the air you have at sea level--I just want to make up for that, not make lots of "extra" power (and heat).

At 8000 feet you can run somewhere around 8 pounds of boost and that will put you around sea level. And yeah the performance at 8000 feet with a na is pitiful so adding a turbo makes sense.
I live at 4500 feet above sea level and without a turbo it's scary to merge into traffic.
Take a look at a turbo om617 and see where the factory put the return line and go from there.
Roddy


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I'd just fing a convienent place to tap into the lower pan. While I'm not sure on a G Wagen, the lower pan is pretty easily removable to get the chips out. A trip to your local fittings store (Parker, Swagelok) will yield a bulkhead fitting that can tighten into the pan leak-free. From there they can make a braided flex line (get teflon inner) to run the oil back to the pan. Ask for a swivel-type fitting on each end to facilitate the installation.


As far as boost - I ran my stock turbo at 12 PSI with no issues and the engine (mine was a turbo engine but the turbo and NA aren't all THAT different) laughed at that amount of boost. Use an external boost controller to dial in the 12 PSI. I'm currently running 25PSI and me and my turbo guy are fixing to run up to 50 PSI. As I understand it the biggest difference between the turbo and NA engines are the piston squirters to cool the pistons - nice but probably not that big a deal on a street-driven non-race engine.


Dan

I would think u would need to weld a bung into the oil pan. And those stupid oil squirter's on the turbo engine honestly could not be cooling the Pistons down that significant of an amount.

I've seen literally hundreds of NA Japanese and American engines retrofitted with a turbo and run upwards of 20lbs of boost for thousands of miles. I don't see what what harm adding a leaky tiny 40 year old turbo running 9lbs of boost if ur lucky is honestly going to cause.

Slam that thing on there, I think u might need to buy a turbo pump tho, I dunno what gains ur gonna get with the na ip

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The key ingredient with the "stupid oil squirters" is that the pistons have a hollow top and the squirter squirts oil right up against the bottom of the piston crown carrying away heat.

The reason for all that is to accommodate long drives at interstate speeds in the desert.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Is there any disadvantage in tapping the lower oil pan?
Most of the photos I’ve seen have been of a tapped upper pan which is of course far more difficult to remove.

I’ve also decided to add a turbo to my 240d as a fun project later in the year
No more than 7-8 pounds of boost, and with the IP rack limiter bumped a few turns.

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1981 240D 4sp manual. Ivory White.

I agree, with the caveat that in a truck application where one may be at WOT for minutes at a time dragging a load up a hill, I'd lean much more towards yes oil squirters are needed. OP did not say what their usage cycle entails.

That said, as the OP isn't looking to get to factory turbo engine power levels, only turbo normalize with stock N/A fueling levels, I'm sure it'll be fine.

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617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap

Why does like almost literally no other car use "piston oil squirter's" then...

And who goes on long drives in the desert anyways

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Because the OM617 was an experimental engine put into production on short notice to satisfy 1970s emissions requirements so Mercedes would be allowed to continue selling their S-Class in North America as their lineup didn't get great fuel economy. They were forced to put a diesel engine into their S-class for this reason.

Because a turbocharged diesel engine hadn't been installed into a passenger vehicle before and especially not their S-class, and there was so much at stake for this to actually work, the engineers made sure this engine would not fail--and piston oil squirters were one thing to ensure this, by cooling down parts of the engine which might be especially prone to heat damage.

I go on long drives in the desert. I live in the desert, so any time I take a long drive, it's in the desert. It gets as hot as 120F here. It was 115F yesterday. Not only that, but if your cooling system isn't in the best order, or you pull up a steep grade for a long period of time, the piston oil squirters might be the one thing that saves the engine.

As for me, I want my car to be able to handle all types of climates. Maybe I decide to move from one climate extreme to another (Washington to Arizona was an example). I also like being able to travel across different states without worrying about if my car can handle the weather.

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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

There are other high performance engines which have squirters....some of the high output Hondas, I believe, perhaps Turbo Subies too.

I never heard about the 617 being an experimental engine.....but then any new application is somewhat experimental.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Ok it was an experimental engine. Well it's 40 years later and it's been proven time and time again that it one of the best long blocks ever made, it has passed the test. I can understand they thought it was necessary then, but it is nominal now. Id be extremely surprised if these cool the Pistons down even 5 degrees Fahrenheit, it's not gonna make or break anything.

And ok they may have been used on other "high output / High performance" engines. This is not either of those, this is a 0-60 in 15 seconds engine, this is a turbo diesel application that is going to be LUCKY to reach 120 horsepower at the crank.


When it comes to a super pumped turbo diesel, ok it "might" help and I would want it for piece of mind.

But like I said, for this set up, a non intercooled tiny 40 year old turbo at 6-8 lbs of boost, running a stock m pump tuned for an NA engines fuel consumption, they are absolutely not going to affect anything.

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It sounds like OP lives in Europe. If so, we can trust that most of the time it will be cold outside.

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