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  #1  
Old 08-03-2019, 02:32 PM
rmasteller's Avatar
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Location: Lithopolis, Ohio
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Opinions: 2014-2016 W212 w/ OM651

Hi. I've briefly searched the forum and, as expected, there isn't much discussion on this newer model diesel. I've had my first ever diesel for 2 years now. Bought the 1997 E300 with 91,000 miles on it with a small stack of dealership receipts in Aug 2017. Now it somehow has 120,000 miles on it and is much improved.

Yet, the wife keeps prodding me to sell the 'old car' and get something 'new and reliable'. Only 'reliability' issue I had was waiting too long to replace the old weak batter last winter. It's a pretty simple car and easy to work on. I bought it with plans to keep it many years and miles, trying to achieve an overall low total cost of ownership.

So, if I were to get something new-ish, it would probably be a W212 E250 with the OM651 2.1 liter twin turbo.

What are your thoughts, opinions, rants, etc. on this vehicle?

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Rodd
www.mbca.org - www.sl113.org - www.ohio4x4.com
NOW: 2006 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 1997 E300D, 1966 230SL, 1980 450SL (for sale!)
PAST: 2006 C230, 1994 E420, 1994 Neon, 1983 Celica GT, 1984 300ZX, 1976 Electra Limited, 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650, 1979 Suzuki PE175
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2019, 04:54 PM
engatwork's Avatar
busy
 
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Location: Soperton, Ga. USA
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You won't find a better car for cost as you already have. With that said I picked the wife up a 14 GLK350 and think it is easily going to go to 250k+ miles. Same thoughts with E class cars of same era. Only issue I've read with diesels negative things I've read about diesels was the DPF stuff.
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2019, 05:46 PM
rmasteller's Avatar
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Jim ,

Well, I think any newer Benz should go 250,000 with proper care.

But yea, for costs amortized over however many years I keep this w210 on the road, I feel I should stay with it. I expected some big expenses the first couple years and was right.
- Five new tires
- Entire new exhaust system
- Repared both rusty spring perches
Beyond that, normal stuff like a headlight replacement, new motor mounts, window and seat switches, saggy headliner, ...

If I keep it on the road for another 7 years and 100,000+ miles, I think it makes financial sense.

We'll see if She Who Wields Great Influence can sway my mind. I'd rather not get a newish car, but instead spend that money on paving the gravel driveway and other home improvements. But, if I do upgrade, I'd think the E250 would be nice. That's why I was asking for opinions, info, etc.
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Rodd
www.mbca.org - www.sl113.org - www.ohio4x4.com
NOW: 2006 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 1997 E300D, 1966 230SL, 1980 450SL (for sale!)
PAST: 2006 C230, 1994 E420, 1994 Neon, 1983 Celica GT, 1984 300ZX, 1976 Electra Limited, 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650, 1979 Suzuki PE175

Last edited by rmasteller; 08-03-2019 at 05:56 PM.
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2019, 01:09 AM
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Subscribed. A 2.1L twin turbo is a different beast than the old I5 and I6 engines, including the CDIs... Its a lot of power in a small package, and while that is the new norm, it means different stresses.

Not sure how many high mileage examples there are of these, or what known issues there are. Id like to get one in that metallic brown color at some point, sort of classic but with all the modern conveniences...
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Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1991 350SD (113k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (263k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K)
1985 300D (233K)
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2019, 11:26 AM
tdoublenastywitit's Avatar
Rule #1, don't freak out.
 
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It's just gonna be same as every new diesel. It will run fine with simple oil changes for 100k miles. And conviently that's when the warenty will be up then u will take all the dpf stuff on it and get the chip delete and do normal maintenance and it will run til u don't want it anymore.

I would think the only person that's gonna have hands on experience with this engine will be members like jake12tech who works at the Mercedes dealership and sees what cars are coming in with problems. Pm him
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:50 AM
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Location: Milford, DE
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I have two OM651 engines in service in my family, a 2013 GLK250 and an 2014 E250.

Between the two cars I've now 140K miles in ownership experience. The only engine issues I've had over this time is a split intercooler hose on the GLK about 20K miles ago. The hose from the intercooler to the intake swirl valve assembly developed a leak, tripped a check-engine light for low-boost condition. Car still ran fine but it was way down on power. This happened while I was away from home and was quickly diagnosed and fixed by a local MB dealer.

Emissions systems on these cars are admittedly complex and are going to be pretty expensive for the average DIY'er to handle. In addition SCN requirements make simple replacements of anything in the emission control system chain like NoX sensors a dealer-only (or independent with a Start Diagnosis system) requirement. To date I've had zero issues with any of the emissions system stuff on either of my cars. The design of the DPF portion of the system could be problematic if the car is operated for extended periods of time in low-speed conditions - the DPF needs a good heating cycle during trap Re-gen cycles.

The amount of torque that is produced from 2.1 liters of displacement is just hard to understand. I started my MB diesel habit with an OM615 220D and every time I'm going up a mountain at 80MPH in 7th gear at 1900RPM in either OM651 powered vehicle I just have flashbacks of making similar drives in my 220D at 40MPH screaming in second gear with black smoke pouring out the back watching the lights from my hazard lights reflecting in the tailing smokescreen as gas powered cars whizzed by me going 70MPH and hoping nobody hit me in the slow lane.

We've come a long way in 40 years.

The CDI engines are just an order of magnitude improvement over the older IDI engines. Just bought an E300D turbodiesel for a member of the family from Jaybob a month ago and spent 8 hours behind the wheel on the way home. The example I bought from Jaybob was a well-maintained and very nice W210 but the torque deficit of the OM606 turbo engine was kind of eye opening to me after extended seat time in the OM651.

The 2005-2006 CDI cars are a very good deal at this point in time. In truth you're getting about 80% of the advantages of the W212/OM651 package at 40% of the cost. If I was thinking of upgrading I'd look for a nice W211 CDI diesel.

YMVV.
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2019, 04:10 PM
rmasteller's Avatar
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Thanks Tim! Excellent feedback from someone with a wide range of diesel experiences.
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Rodd
www.mbca.org - www.sl113.org - www.ohio4x4.com
NOW: 2006 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 1997 E300D, 1966 230SL, 1980 450SL (for sale!)
PAST: 2006 C230, 1994 E420, 1994 Neon, 1983 Celica GT, 1984 300ZX, 1976 Electra Limited, 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650, 1979 Suzuki PE175
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  #8  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:20 AM
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2014 E250 Bluetec

I've had a 2014 E250 Bluetec for a couple years now. Hardly any problems. I did have a emissions sensor go but was covered under warranty. If it wasn't for the check engine light, I wouldn't have even noticed anything was wrong. That's all that has really happened.



I get great mileage and it's got plenty of power. My one dislike is the "safety" stuff, like collision avoidance. Sometimes it beeps thinking you are going to hit something when you are passing a car in the left hand turn lane, or are driving around a curve or drive past something in a construction zone etc. Kind of distracting, and not safe when you are taking your eyes off the road and looking at the dash to find out what the beeping is for.
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  #9  
Old 10-15-2019, 12:35 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 37,737
Keep the old benz, get a new wife.

Just kidding.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2019, 01:39 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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I've had a GLK250 for 15+ months now and have covered about 14,000 miles. No issues with the engine or vehicle other than a DPF failure, which I attribute to the car's previous life (company car in Chicago) so it probably spent a LOT of time idling in traffic. Failed at 78k covered by warranty....and by failed I mean drove completely normally except with check engine light on till replaced. Endless torque, fires up instantly in any outside temperature. It will cruise at 100mph at about 2,700rpm with ease in 7th gear....

Typical MPG's are 34-36 highway, and rarely under 27 in the city.....in a 4 wheel drive 4,450lb block....with not the greatest aerodynamics.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 101k - mine - (OC-104,600)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 24k - wifes (OC-25k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 57k (OC - 63k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 72k - dad's (OC-75k)
'01 SL500 - 92k(km) - dad's (OC-94,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 117k - Brothers (OC-125k)
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  #11  
Old 12-07-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
Subscribed. A 2.1L twin turbo is a different beast than the old I5 and I6 engines, including the CDIs... Its a lot of power in a small package, and while that is the new norm, it means different stresses.

Not sure how many high mileage examples there are of these, or what known issues there are. Id like to get one in that metallic brown color at some point, sort of classic but with all the modern conveniences...
How do you like that 1991 350sdl... any issues on the Oil/rodbending?

any ways/thoughts - how to detect those issues- when searching for one.

I still need to test drive 2005/06 cdi- to see how I like it.

Test drove the e250 BT's... nice ride... but still think the DPF junk - gonna cost me in long run... so if I did buy-- I am leaning to DPF delete--
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  #12  
Old 12-08-2019, 07:41 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 15,429
Something people often overlook about the older cars is that while most of the engines were solid long lived machines, other issues like climate control, suspension, transmission, vacuum systems, interior bits, power windows/electronics, etc, all deteriorate and start needing continual care which takes both a lot of time and money. They also have less safety systems and far more primitive (or no) traction systems which is a big benefit here in the arctic....

The interior and electronics quality on the newer vehicles (I'd say 2007 onward) are so much better, as well as the climate control.

My GLK has almost 84k miles on it and is almost 5 years old and looks/feels/drives essentially brand new.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 101k - mine - (OC-104,600)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 24k - wifes (OC-25k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 57k (OC - 63k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 72k - dad's (OC-75k)
'01 SL500 - 92k(km) - dad's (OC-94,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 117k - Brothers (OC-125k)
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2019, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdoublenastywitit View Post
It's just gonna be same as every new diesel. It will run fine with simple oil changes for 100k miles. And conviently that's when the warenty will be up then u will take all the dpf stuff on it and get the chip delete and do normal maintenance and it will run til u don't want it anymore.

I would think the only person that's gonna have hands on experience with this engine will be members like jake12tech who works at the Mercedes dealership and sees what cars are coming in with problems. Pm him
this ^

i had a '15 E250 for a while when i worked for daimler. i cant think of a better all around vehicle.

it returned incredible hwy mpgs, was quick, comfortable for long trips. we did a non-stop PDX to LA trip in it shortly after i got it, drove it up to a couple of fire lookouts in eastern oregon, etc.... all around fantastic.

if someone was reliably doing tunes for them id probably consider it for a daily. i love my w124 but its hard to compare nearly 30 years of improvements!

pictures, because why not hah





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  #14  
Old 12-10-2019, 03:40 PM
rmasteller's Avatar
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"if someone was reliably doing tunes for them..."

Please elaborate. What do you feel is insufficient? And, just so I'm not making assumptions, what do you mean by 'tune'?
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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Location: PNW
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ah, fair question!

my exposure to new MB vehicle ownership at that time was relatively brief (~10k miles per car, but i got to try a fair bit of interesting stuff as a tradeoff) so i didnt get any great sense of long term reliability.

the factory performance i didnt have any complaints about - as i said mpgs were fantastic, power was great, and i dont recall ever even needing to add DEF during my ownership.

but thinking of what that system might be like with 150-200k on it i would prefer to have it set up with an emissions intact tune. to maintain the emissions hardware (particularly the dpf) but electronically disable egr, def dosing, etc. i think that would prove to be a much more long term viable solution, and would make it more interesting to me as a high mileage future daily driver. without that, im not sure...


i did entertain the thought of picking up a used one a year or so ago and looked for folks doing these tunes but it seems like theres only some vague references to companies in europe doing this, and no real tuning support stateside.

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