If I read correctly, you were off by 4 mil at the "20 mil valve lift" to "crank angle position" measurement. First, the FSM metric is the "crank angle overshoot" at "20 mil", not the "valve lift error" at TDC. Second 4 mil sounds almost negligible. I would measure the crank angle error (at 20 mil) and install an offset Woodruff key (cheap on P-P), since much easier and less risk than replacing the chain. I did that on my two 300D's. If that over-corrects a bit, no problem since parts will wear again, plus valve advance gives better mileage and low-end torque in gas engines (true also in diesels?). Many classic owners install a new timing set 4 deg advanced (better sets let you select).

I think the long chain guide (R side) is the only one which gets much wear, since the tensioner pushes it into the chain. It usually gets deep grooves cut in the nylon. It is fairly easy to change, especially when removing the tensioner (remove lower pin w/ bolt & washers). It is much harder to change the lower ones (I haven't) and I think they barely touch the chain and are just to keep it from whipping at certain engine resonances. Buy a new tensioner spring (cheap, P-P) since they usually get a flat worn on the side.

That vacuum pump housing is shot. That Pierburg part is a weak link in the engine. The internals can fail and slide into the timing chain, to jam and destroy the engine. New pumps are very expensive and even the rebuild kits are also expensive (check valves, gaskets, and especially inner arms). I think you can fit an earlier pump (2 tubes, rubber diaphragm instead of piston) and those rebuild kits are cheap, but I think they also need rebuild more often.

__________________
1984 & 1985 CA 300D's
1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport
1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans

Thanks Bill, I got the Vac Pump rebuilt,timing device installed, rebuilt Turbo, refaced and cleaned Intake and Exhaust Mans. Rolled in new chain, rechecked, 17 degrees atdc. Woodruff Key time, I did not replace Cam Sprocket, or long Guide, how much would that help, the guide had minor scratches. Please advise on Woodruff Degree. Had to pull away for a while to help Grandson finish Fall Baseball Season. He managed to pick up some hardware.

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If after rolling a new chain you are still showing 17 degrees ATDC then there are three possibilities I can think of.

A: You skipped a tooth during installation.
B: Cam gear is excessively worn.
C: Timing marks/dampener are incorrect.

I'm guessing at A. If I remember correctly the cam gear has 40 teeth. Each tooth correlates to apx. 9 degrees. The cam rotates once for each two revolutions of the crankshaft. 2 X 9 = 18 degrees.

It is possible that you installed the chain exactly as it was and that it had been incorrectly replaced.

Just a thought.

__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now

Both are possible, I took extra care to keep chains on sprockets when rolling it in, but when installing timing device there is a lot of slack in chain. According to FSM I should be at 9 deg. ATDC (new chain spec) for No #5 code which I have is a #11 the #5 replacement. If I move cam back I tooth what will that do to injection timing. I just checked the chain I removed to see if it was original, doesn't look it.

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Injection is timed to crank position not the cam.

Just out of curiosity, where is the cam timing mark when the crank is at 0 degrees (TDC)?

__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now

The mark is dead on crank when looking straight over top of it. I took a pic of crank but it is hiding at this time.

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Okay, we were talking apples and oranges before. NOW I think we are on the same page. You are attempting to set the injection timing and I was under the impression you were dealing with the camshaft itself being 17 degrees off.

My fault. You are good on the chain as far as stretch goes.

You are setting the point at which degree the valve opens to allow the intake of fuel/air mixture into the cylinder which is not TDC but XX degrees (I don't have a FSM manual handy to know the amount).

I think you are trying for a precision you are not going to achieve on an engine with 200K+ miles on it.

__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now

No Sir, I am trying to make sure Cam and Crank are timed right after installing new timing chain and timing device bushing. It appears I am around 8 degrees off. Do I move a tooth back on cam or add woodruff key. Thanks.

Ok, I added a woodruff key and my cam to crank is 11 degree atdc, got every thing back together. Initial start-up produced nailing. I'm sure timing is now off having done a total of 11 degree correction on crank.

I searched for tang at injection pump port and found my 83 doesn't have one.
I need advice to set injection timing. I hope I can get it without removing IP and just rotate.

List of repairs this go around:
Timing Chain
Tensioner Spring
Cam Sprocket
Chain Guide
Timing Device Bushing
Turbo Rebuild
Int/Ex Manifold Gasket, Clean and Reface
Valve Stem Seals
Valve Adj.
Rework Oil Sep. Drain
Replace Oil Cooler Lines
Repair Oil Cooler Nipple(Dammit)
Replace Transmission Cooler Line Rubber Inserts
Replace Power Steering Hoses
Oil Pump Tensioner
Oil Pan Gasket
T-stat

As this picture shows of the cam shaft timing mark, the cam gear is off one tooth which is 18 degrees. Move cam ahead one tooth and recheck crank timing. With cam gear lined up with tower housing mark, crank should be on zero or very near it. Then check valve timing with dial gauge at 2 mm lift with clearance taken out of rocker. This should be 9 degrees after top dead center or 11 degrees with old chain. This can be corrected with off-set key.

I have installed woodruff key, cam to crank marks line up, 2mm lift puts me at 11 degrees atdc. I need injection time adjustment, I'm getting strong nailing when running.

That's because your base engine timing is crap. Cam/crank should be a ZERO in a perfect world. You're off a tooth, no woodruff key is going to fix that. Fix the basic mechanical issue first, then worry about tweaking things.

__________________
Current stable:
1995 E320 149K (Nancy)
1983 500SL 120K (SLoL)

Black Sheep:
1985 524TD 167K (TotalDumpster™)

Gone but not forgotten:
1986 300SDL (RIP)
1991 350SD
1991 560SEL
1990 560SEL
1986 500SEL Euro (Rusted to nothing at 47K!)

In rp930's shoes, I'd remove that key and move the chain on the camshaft gear to get that timing right first. No key should be required on a new chain. Note that if the camshaft gear is severely worn (teeth are sharp points) then the worn gear will cause the new chain to wear out more quickly. Replacing all those other parts, might as well consider replacing this gear as well.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

How did you rotate the new chain through single handedly?

I apologize for my communication skills. When I said cam/crank marks dead on. The mark on cam sprocket lines up with crank scale 0 tdc. The other measurements I reported are using 2mm lift. The woodruff put me 11 degrees atdc reading 2mm valve lift. I am past that part of the work, and want to check injection timing.

Ray