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Old 11-10-2019, 02:28 PM
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Howe's Diesel Treat

I've been using this for a couple of years now. After recently reading about Stanadyne I'm wondering if I'm maybe taking too much on faith with Howe's. It gets good reviews but how much do any of us know on that stuff.

I've been using HPR fuel almost from the start with my SDL (not dead yet). Word is that HPR needs a lubricity enhancer.

Howe's is definitely more afforadable than Stanadyne - about 3 cents a gallon as opposed to 14 cents with Stanadyne. Does one indeed get what one pays for in many cases?

I have a routine - I bought a 5 oz bottle of the Lucas gas treatment, put that in my Beemer, cleaned the bottle and fill it with Howe's using a funnel. I stash that in my trunk and empty it into the tank on major fill ups. Supposed to be one ounce per 5 gallons. Here's a pic of the bottle, might jog the memory:



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Old 11-10-2019, 07:42 PM
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Since the anti-gel is on the label that is obvious but what is it you are targeting? Better lubrication for the Injection Pump and or raising the cetane rating.

This is a test from many years back so it may no longer apply. It is a test for lubricity.

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

Also companies also often make more then one product. So a companies one product did well it does not mean the others will.

In short beyond the Companies claims there really is no way for common folk to test.

What is interesting how well having a percentage of biodiesel did.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:07 PM
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https://www.howeslube.com/products/diesel-treat\

If is said it raised the cetane I did not see that.
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Old 11-10-2019, 10:12 PM
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Project Farm on YouTube just posted a video comparing a bunch of diesel anti gel additives. He does a lubricity test.

https://youtu.be/n8gDN_6esfs
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:54 PM
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I watched part of that vid, I'll watch all of it.

When I started using HPR I could have sworn I read that it was poor in lubricity. Now I find this:

Quote:
Diesel HPR is additized to provide excellent lubricity in all driving conditions and exceeds ULSD lubricity specification.
https://propelfuels.com/our_fuels?active=diesel

One would think they would have an interest in something like that.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:06 PM
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Additives tend to be expensive. I wonder if just adding a few ounces of new vegetable oil per tank would increase the lubrication factor of the newer fuels enough. Or even just a few ounces of new motor oil.


Although this has to apply to older diesels without sophisticated emission controls.

Last edited by barry12345; 11-11-2019 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
I watched part of that vid, I'll watch all of it.

When I started using HPR I could have sworn I read that it was poor in lubricity. Now I find this:



https://propelfuels.com/our_fuels?active=diesel

One would think they would have an interest in something like that.

When I started using HPR, I found a forum post where someone actually wrote a letter to Propel and he actually got a response - IIRC they said that HPR has higher lubricity than normal diesel, and included a MSDS or something similar.

I was searching for the post recently and could never find it.

I like HPR, gives me better power but I don't use it much because I get worse gas mileage.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
Additives tend to be expensive. I wonder if just adding a few ounces of new vegetable oil per tank would increase the lubrication factor of the newer fuels enough. Or even just a few ounces of new motor oil.


Although this has to apply to older diesels without sophisticated emission controls.
I used ATF in the past. Definitely made my tired old OM616 run smoother.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximan1 View Post
When I started using HPR, I found a forum post where someone actually wrote a letter to Propel and he actually got a response - IIRC they said that HPR has higher lubricity than normal diesel, and included a MSDS or something similar.

I was searching for the post recently and could never find it.

I like HPR, gives me better power but I don't use it much because I get worse gas mileage.
I sometimes get 25 mpg on my 300SDL on HPR. Haven't used dino enough to compare. Once on a trip back up from up north I got 25 highway mpg and that was on dino. Average on HPR in city about 21-22.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximan1 View Post
I used ATF in the past. Definitely made my tired old OM616 run smoother.

Do you remember the dosage per tank or gallon? You used.


I have and frequently run across unused surplus transmission fluid. It would be a cheap additive for increasing the fuel lubrication. It has some detergent additives as well I believe. So it might help keep the fuel system cleaner.


You just cannot use it on the newer diesels with particle filters. Yet great for the 616 and 617s.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:24 PM
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I read one description on installing a new spin on fuel filter - they suggested filling it with diesel of ATF fluid to eliminate cranking to fill the void. There's a better expression for that but I can't place it right off.
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
Do you remember the dosage per tank or gallon? You used.


I have and frequently run across unused surplus transmission fluid. It would be a cheap additive for increasing the fuel lubrication. It has some detergent additives as well I believe. So it might help keep the fuel system cleaner.


You just cannot use it on the newer diesels with particle filters. Yet great for the 616 and 617s.
I used a quart for a full tank in my engine, which may have been a little excessive.
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:30 PM
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I bought my first diesel in 1979. (brand new '79 Rabbit diesel). 5 more since then.
I have never bought any additive other than using ATF to fill fuel filters when changing them out.

That '79? Kalifornia dmv charged a $500 fee because, "We are unable to smog test this vehicle." Seriously, , , , this is what they told me.
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:04 PM
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I've settled on 1oz 2-stroke/gal based on the lubricity study and problems with a Cummins 24V injection pump. My recollection is that Howse wasn't great for lubricity. Some Stanadyne version was near the top but is easy to over dose because it is relatively concentrated compared to other options. 2-stroke is readily available and cheap at Walmart sold in gallons. ATF is discounted in the Cummins forums especially used and unfiltered.

I don't believe that the mechanical injection pumps on a 617 nearly as sensitive as electronic newer IPs.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornemuse View Post
I bought my first diesel in 1979. (brand new '79 Rabbit diesel). 5 more since then.
I have never bought any additive other than using ATF to fill fuel filters when changing them out.

That '79? Kalifornia dmv charged a $500 fee because, "We are unable to smog test this vehicle." Seriously, , , , this is what they told me.
The fuels you used back in that day had better lubricity. You likely know that, not trying to insult your intelligence. I had never researched the issue much. Found all of this just now on Wikipedia:

Quote:
500 ppm – Sulfur limit of 500 ppm = 0.05% (wt.) became effective in October 1993. This fuel, commonly referred to as “low sulfur” diesel fuel, was introduced to facilitate sulfate particulate emission reductions, which were necessary for meeting the 1994 emission standards for heavy-duty highway engines.
The following from this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel

Quote:
Lubricity
Sulfur is not a lubricant in and of itself, but it can combine with the nickel content in many metal alloys to form a low melting point eutectic alloy that can increase lubricity. The process used to reduce the sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change ASTM International (formerly the American Society for Testing and Materials) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975[6] for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005.[7] The D975 standard defines two ULSD standards, Grade No. 2-D S15 (regular ULSD) and Grade No. 1-D S15 (a higher volatility fuel with a lower gelling temperature than regular ULSD).

The refining process that removes the sulfur also reduces the aromatic content and density of the fuel, resulting in a minor decrease in the energy content, by about 1%.[citation needed] This decrease in energy content may result in slightly reduced peak power and fuel economy.

The transition to ULSD is not without substantial costs. The US government has estimated that pump prices for diesel fuel will increase between $.05 and $.25 per gallon as a result of the transition. And, according to the American Petroleum Institute, the domestic refining industry has invested over $8 billion to comply with the new regulations.

ULSD will run in any engine designed for the ASTM D975 diesel fuels.

However, it is known to cause some seals to shrink,[8] and may cause fuel pump failures in Volkswagen TDI engines used in 2006 to pre-2009 models.[citation needed] TDI engines from 2009 and on are designed to use ULSD exclusively; biodiesel blends are reported to prevent that failure.

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