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-   -   Can a Bad Ground Fry an Alternator? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/402472-can-bad-ground-fry-alternator.html)

Diesel911 12-07-2019 01:37 PM

Can a Bad Ground Fry an Alternator?
 
I have been over on the Benz world forum and there is a guy with a W123 that said he keeps frying alternators even when they are replaced.

I can't remember if a bad ground would cause his issue or not. If you have a reason post here and I will post the answer on benzworld or go to his thread and comment.

https://www.benzworld.org/threads/alternator-woes.3041438/

Mxfrank 12-07-2019 04:59 PM

The alternator itself can’t lose ground, since the case is bolted to the engine at more than one point. What can happen is an interruption of the charging circuit, either due to a bad battery ground or a loose B+ connection. When the charging circuit is opened suddenly, a huge inductive surge can form in the stator, causing a little lightning storm. That’s why you should never use the stupid dog trick of undoing a battery cable while the engine is running to test the alternator.

vwnate1 12-07-2019 07:07 PM

Killing Vs. Testing Alternators
 
What Frank said ! .

If you don't have the proper equipments to test alternators you can disconnect the ground cable with the engine running above idle but you MUST NOT RECONNECT IT UNTIL YOU STOP THE ENGINE as the resulting spike of charging current will likely do it in .

Diseasel300 12-07-2019 07:19 PM

The OP in the thread over on BW says it's the same alternator that keeps cooking. The question is what is cooking on it? Diodes? Stator? Rotor? Regulator? Since it's the same alternator failing over and over again, it could be a combination of bad slip rings and a cheap/generic regulator. Burn the regulator out, it runs away, burns up trying to overcharge the battery.

vwnate1 12-07-2019 09:26 PM

Surging
 
Typically this will blow the diodes to open circuit allowing AC to enter the system......

On older generator system the surge would cook the cutout contacts on the voltage regulator leading to over charging and "motoring" of the generator when the engine was shut off .

Diesel911 12-07-2019 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diseasel300 (Post 3983656)
The OP in the thread over on BW says it's the same alternator that keeps cooking. The question is what is cooking on it? Diodes? Stator? Rotor? Regulator? Since it's the same alternator failing over and over again, it could be a combination of bad slip rings and a cheap/generic regulator. Burn the regulator out, it runs away, burns up trying to overcharge the battery.

" I've had it repaired by a reputable vendor at least 3 times now." I suppose I am assuming that the reputable vendor tested it before giving the alternator back.

If it was repaired properly would that not be the same as a rebuilt alternator.

Diesel911 12-07-2019 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank (Post 3983644)
The alternator itself can’t lose ground, since the case is bolted to the engine at more than one point. What can happen is an interruption of the charging circuit, either due to a bad battery ground or a loose B+ connection. When the charging circuit is opened suddenly, a huge inductive surge can form in the stator, causing a little lightning storm. That’s why you should never use the stupid dog trick of undoing a battery cable while the engine is running to test the alternator.

Yes it can lose the ground. If where the Alternator Bracket mounts to the Engine becomes rusted enough you won't have a good ground.

Diesel911 12-07-2019 11:25 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I forgot there is another place you can have a bad ground. I read about this when someone powder coated their alternator housing. One end of the Voltage Regulator is grounded where one of the screws goes through the alternator. I assume corrosion would do the same. See attached picture.

Then there is that springy contact finger inside of the Alternator that has to make good contact with the ground strap. see the pic of the attached corroded one.

BillGrissom 12-08-2019 11:03 AM

I don't know about the Motorola-style alternator in my 300D and GM's, but in my old Chryslers w/ external voltage regulator (Vreg), if the Vreg doesn't have a good ground, it will sense the output voltage low and cause the alternator to put out excessive voltage. That is common in the factory wiring since they just used a sheet-metal screw (now rusty) into the body for the ground. I don't know that kills the alternator itself, but makes the headlight burn bright and short, and other electrical issues. Use a cigarette-lighter voltmeter to monitor your running voltage.

Diesel911 12-09-2019 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom (Post 3983770)
I don't know about the Motorola-style alternator in my 300D and GM's, but in my old Chryslers w/ external voltage regulator (Vreg), if the Vreg doesn't have a good ground, it will sense the output voltage low and cause the alternator to put out excessive voltage. That is common in the factory wiring since they just used a sheet-metal screw (now rusty) into the body for the ground. I don't know that kills the alternator itself, but makes the headlight burn bright and short, and other electrical issues. Use a cigarette-lighter voltmeter to monitor your running voltage.

Most of them have Bosch Alternators.

We know from that from the mod in this thread that increasing the resistance to ground increases the output voltage on the type of Bosch alternator that is on my 300D.

Bosch Alternator Regulator Modification with diode to increase resistance

http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/alternator/

More on Alternator Mod with diode

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=2427184#post2427184

So it is not a stretch to imply that some other reason to increase the resistance to ground would cause the same increase in output voltage. However, I am guessing there has to be some current flow.

barry12345 12-09-2019 08:40 AM

He is not overlooking a bad battery?

SD Blue 12-10-2019 08:07 PM

I've experienced a bad ground at the regulator causing it to not charge. Basically, it was slight corrosion of the housing. It kept occurring until I dabbed it with a bit of conductive grease. Since the alternator is mounted low, it may be the cause of many "failures".


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